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feasting knife

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  • rickj
    Some time ago there was a discussion as to what kind of knife totake to a feast, the tanto being.. inappropriate. Someone suggested that Japanese Pic-nik Knife
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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      Some time ago there was a discussion as to what kind of knife totake to a feast, the tanto being.. inappropriate.

      Someone suggested that Japanese Pic-nik Knife one can find on the Web.
      I own a plastic handle/sheathe version in my Kayak bag and love it.

      I was at Trader Joes a few days ago and saw a display of bamboo-ware.
      Bamboo fork and spoon and hashi (the fork is totally useless) along with some bamboo-ware.

      AND, included for $11.95 was that pic-Nik knife with bamboo handle and sheath!

      It's a beautiful blade and being japanese, follows the ancestral pattern.
      I bought two.

      So try your local Trader Joes or Health-food chain.
    • Solveig Throndardottir
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Soveig! The problem is of course that Japanese did not use knives to eat at banquets. About the closest that you come is a kind of
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Soveig! The problem is of course that Japanese did not
        use knives to eat at banquets. About the closest that you come is a
        kind of fruit knife which does have a wooden handle and a wooden
        sheath. The chef's job was to appropriately cut all of the food items
        in advance of serving a meal. There are some formal occasions where
        the chef would cut the food in the presence of the diners. This is
        described in The Confessions of Lady Nijo.

        There are also "kuromoji" which are sort of like gigantic toothpicks
        which are used to eat moist sweets at tea ceremonies.

        Generally speaking, we have evidence for chopsticks and long handled
        spoons showing up in pre-modern Japanese place settings.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar
      • JL Badgley
        ... Okay, so we just shouldn t eat anything that barbarians who don t know how to cut up food would eat. :) Seriously, though, I think everyone realizes by
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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          On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
          > Noble Cousin!
          >
          > Greetings from Soveig! The problem is of course that Japanese did not
          > use knives to eat at banquets. About the closest that you come is a
          > kind of fruit knife which does have a wooden handle and a wooden
          > sheath. The chef's job was to appropriately cut all of the food items
          > in advance of serving a meal. There are some formal occasions where
          > the chef would cut the food in the presence of the diners. This is
          > described in The Confessions of Lady Nijo.
          >
          > There are also "kuromoji" which are sort of like gigantic toothpicks
          > which are used to eat moist sweets at tea ceremonies.
          >
          > Generally speaking, we have evidence for chopsticks and long handled
          > spoons showing up in pre-modern Japanese place settings.
          >
          Okay, so we just shouldn't eat anything that barbarians who don't know
          how to cut up food would eat. :)

          Seriously, though, I think everyone realizes by now that knives aren't
          something you regularly find at a Japanese table, but we need a way to
          deal with the fact that food isn't always going to be prepared in a
          Japanese manner, and in the same way we use the chairs provided for
          feast, having a knife is a good idea. Best to have it at least look
          like something you grabbed out of the kitchen to deal with these silly
          nanban customs than to have a something completely wrong for your
          persona, right?

          -Ii
        • JL Badgley
          ... Those are definitely a good buy for our purposes. Nice find! -Ii
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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            On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 5:06 AM, rickj <rikjohnson@...> wrote:

            > It's a beautiful blade and being japanese, follows the ancestral pattern.
            > I bought two.

            Those are definitely a good buy for our purposes. Nice find!

            -Ii
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Ii dono! Greetings from Soveig! ... Actually, since the problem occurs at Western feasts, your scenario is an excellent reason to have a blatantly Western
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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              Ii dono!

              Greetings from Soveig!

              > Best to have it at least look
              >>
              > like something you grabbed out of the kitchen to deal with these silly
              > nanban customs than to have a something completely wrong for your
              > persona, right?

              Actually, since the problem occurs at Western feasts, your scenario
              is an excellent reason to have a blatantly Western knife such as a
              rather nice knife made in Sweden (I think it was) that looks sort of
              like a dagger. It's made out of carbon steel, comes in a faux leather
              sheath, and is also a whole lot less expensive than a Japanese
              kitchen knife.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
            • Mori Michimori
              Greetings, Solveig-dono and Ii-dono! ... For those with ~$US50 to spare, there are some very reasonable western European dining and utility knives available
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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                Greetings, Solveig-dono and Ii-dono!

                On Oct 6, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote:

                > Ii dono!
                >
                > Greetings from Soveig!
                >
                >> Best to have it at least look like something you grabbed out of
                >> the kitchen to deal with these silly nanban customs than to have a
                >> something completely wrong for your persona, right?
                >
                > Actually, since the problem occurs at Western feasts, your scenario
                > is an excellent reason to have a blatantly Western knife such as a
                > rather nice knife made in Sweden (I think it was) that looks sort of
                > like a dagger. It's made out of carbon steel, comes in a faux leather
                > sheath, and is also a whole lot less expensive than a Japanese
                > kitchen knife.
                >

                For those with ~$US50 to spare, there are some very reasonable
                western European dining and utility knives available through
                Revival.US <http://revival.us/index.asp?
                PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=239> (be sure to check the related items
                at the bottom of the page).

                For my part, when Dôshu attends a Western feast, he will borrow a
                knife from the cook in his entourage, preferring a tool of proper
                Japanese construction to some awkward Western blade of no known
                heritage.

                In humble service, as befits a Samurai,

                Dôshu
                --
                Mori Daitarô Michimori-shônagon
              • Rick Johnson
                ... use knives to eat at banquets. Agreed, though I believe that the discussion was about being Japanese in a standard multi-cultural banquet where the food is
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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                  >>Greetings from Soveig! The problem is of course that Japanese did not
                  use knives to eat at banquets.

                  Agreed, though I believe that the discussion was about being Japanese in a standard multi-cultural banquet where the food is generally European.
                  In that scene, a knife would be useful.



                  Rick Johnson,
                  aka RikJohnson39@...
                  PO Box 40451, Tucson, Az. 85717
                  http://geocities.com/RikJohnson39
                  "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither!"


                  Please note: message attached

                  From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>
                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] feasting knife
                  Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:22:27 -0400



                  ____________________________________________________________
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                • ErinK
                  As an aside, I d always heard that I m not responsible for cutting my own food in Japanese culture, but that doesn t really fit with a lot of the things I ve
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 7, 2009
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                    As an aside, I'd always heard that I'm not responsible for cutting my own food in Japanese culture, but that doesn't really fit with a lot of the things I've been served at restaurants! ;-)

                    I never know whether to rend, bite, or pick....

                    ERIN

                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The chef's job was to appropriately cut all of the food items
                    > in advance of serving a meal. There are some formal occasions where
                    > the chef would cut the food in the presence of the diners. This is
                    > described in The Confessions of Lady Nijo.
                  • Solveig Throndardottir
                    Dôshu dono! Greetings from Solveig! With a name like that, I pretty much expect you to be a vegetarian and in not much need of a knife. Your Humble Servant
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 7, 2009
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                      Dôshu dono!

                      Greetings from Solveig! With a name like that, I pretty much expect
                      you to be a vegetarian and in not much need of a knife.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar
                    • JL Badgley
                      On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Solveig Throndardottir ... I wonder how well folks like Shingen and Kenshin kept their various vows? -Ii Shōshō
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 7, 2009
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                        On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Solveig Throndardottir
                        <nostrand@...> wrote:
                        > Dôshu dono!
                        >
                        > Greetings from Solveig! With a name like that, I pretty much expect
                        > you to be a vegetarian and in not much need of a knife.
                        >
                        :)

                        I wonder how well folks like Shingen and Kenshin kept their various vows?

                        -Ii Shōshō
                      • Mori Michimori
                        Greetings, Solveig-dono! ... Ah! It is clear you have never faced a raging daikon! They get really dangerous when they re cornered. Dôshu -- Mori Daitarô
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 7, 2009
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                          Greetings, Solveig-dono!

                          On Oct 7, 2009, at 9:05 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote:

                          > Dôshu dono!
                          >
                          > Greetings from Solveig! With a name like that, I pretty much expect
                          > you to be a vegetarian and in not much need of a knife.
                          >
                          > Your Humble Servant
                          > Solveig Throndardottir
                          > Amateur Scholar
                          >

                          Ah! It is clear you have never faced a raging daikon! They get really
                          dangerous when they're cornered.

                          Dôshu
                          --
                          Mori Daitarô Michimori-shônagon
                        • Mori Michimori
                          This thread set me off to Google search. An early hit was Japan Woodworker. There is
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 7, 2009
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                            This thread set me off to Google search.

                            An early hit was Japan Woodworker.

                            <http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?
                            dept_id=13150&s=JapanWoodworker>

                            There is some beautiful stuff here, but judging by the prices on some
                            of the vegetable knives, they must be made by Living National
                            Treasures, using the full ritual!


                            Dôshu Giiku
                            --
                            Mori Daitarô Michimori-shônagon
                          • James Eckman
                            ... Yes, Japan Woodworker in the tradition of Garrett Wade creates some of the finest tool porn ;) They do have stuff sane mortals can purchase though in
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 8, 2009
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                              > Posted by: "Mori Michimori"

                              > This thread set me off to Google search. An early hit was Japan
                              > Woodworker. <http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?
                              > dept_id=13150&s=JapanWoodworker> There is some beautiful stuff here,
                              > but judging by the prices on some of the vegetable knives, they must
                              > be made by Living National Treasures, using the full ritual!
                              Yes, Japan Woodworker in the tradition of Garrett Wade creates some of
                              the finest tool porn ;) They do have stuff sane mortals can purchase
                              though in addition to the mystical chisels formed by the soul of the
                              samurai. I like their Ryoba saws with the replaceable blades, great for
                              working in softwoods and the ones that are "blue hard" stay sharp for
                              years. Note that mere mortals cannot sharpen Japanese saws (not a joke),
                              the angles are much more difficult that western saws, so if your not
                              local, buy a spare blade.

                              Jim
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