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Refrence

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  • the.lady.phoenix@gmail.com
    Ohayo, well, last night (like 6 hours ago) I was in the house where 2 out of 3 of the places for my refrences to be stored are located, and found, Government
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 1, 2009
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      Ohayo,

      well, last night (like 6 hours ago) I was in the house where 2 out of
      3 of the places for my refrences to be stored are located, and found,

      "Government And Local Power In Japan 500-1700" by John Whitney Hall
      Second printing 1970, SBN 691-03019-7, published by Princeton University Press.

      I'm wondering if anyone else has read this and how "good" of a
      resource they found it or didn't and why. Obviously if I am the first
      to read it here (though I doubt that!) I'll make a report on if I
      found it good, hard to follow, etc.

      Sara
    • JL Badgley
      ... Excellent resource! John Whitney Hall is definitely one of the names to look for regarding any historical info on Japan. I wish I could find my copy (if
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 2, 2009
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        On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 12:21 PM, <the.lady.phoenix@...> wrote:
        > Ohayo,
        >
        > well, last night (like 6 hours ago) I was in the house where 2 out of
        > 3 of the places for my refrences to be stored are located, and found,
        >
        > "Government And Local Power In Japan 500-1700" by John Whitney Hall
        > Second printing 1970, SBN 691-03019-7, published by Princeton University Press.
        >
        > I'm wondering if anyone else has read this and how "good" of a
        > resource they found it or didn't and why.  Obviously if I am the first
        > to read it here (though I doubt that!) I'll make a report on if I
        > found it good, hard to follow, etc.
        >
        Excellent resource! John Whitney Hall is definitely one of the names
        to look for regarding any historical info on Japan. I wish I could
        find my copy (if you wanted to check, he might have something in there
        about the uji debate... but maybe not).

        This work looks at the specifics of government--As I recall it looks
        at the governance of Bizen from the early formation of Japanese
        statehood all the way up to the Edo period. It is quite the resource,
        and often quoted, even today. There may be some ideas that are out of
        date, but that doesn't disqualify the scholarship involved in any way.

        -Ii
      • the.lady.phoenix@gmail.com
        Uesugi Family, pages 286, 332-33 Uji 23, 34-44 alas, I can t find any refrence that has both in the hour I ve spent scanning the relavent sections. Sara
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 2, 2009
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          Uesugi Family, pages 286, 332-33
          Uji 23, 34-44

          alas, I can't find any refrence that has both in the hour I've spent
          scanning the relavent sections.

          Sara

          On 02/06/2009, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
          > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 12:21 PM, <the.lady.phoenix@...> wrote:
          >> Ohayo,
          >>
          >> well, last night (like 6 hours ago) I was in the house where 2 out of
          >> 3 of the places for my refrences to be stored are located, and found,
          >>
          >> "Government And Local Power In Japan 500-1700" by John Whitney Hall
          >> Second printing 1970, SBN 691-03019-7, published by Princeton University
          >> Press.
          >>
          >> I'm wondering if anyone else has read this and how "good" of a
          >> resource they found it or didn't and why.  Obviously if I am the first
          >> to read it here (though I doubt that!) I'll make a report on if I
          >> found it good, hard to follow, etc.
          >>
          > Excellent resource! John Whitney Hall is definitely one of the names
          > to look for regarding any historical info on Japan. I wish I could
          > find my copy (if you wanted to check, he might have something in there
          > about the uji debate... but maybe not).
          >
          > This work looks at the specifics of government--As I recall it looks
          > at the governance of Bizen from the early formation of Japanese
          > statehood all the way up to the Edo period. It is quite the resource,
          > and often quoted, even today. There may be some ideas that are out of
          > date, but that doesn't disqualify the scholarship involved in any way.
          >
          > -Ii
          >
        • the.lady.phoenix@gmail.com
          wait, Page 272, middle of the page By 1572 the process had gone much furthur and over 2/3 of the country had been brought under control of thirteen great
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 2, 2009
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            wait, Page 272, middle of the page "By 1572 the process had gone much
            furthur and over 2/3 of the country had been brought under control of
            thirteen great houses. These were the Uesugi, Hojo, Takeda, Tokugawa,
            Oda, Asakura, Asai, Yamana, Mori, Chosokabe, Otomo, Ryuzoji, and
            Shimazu." any spelling errors are my own but otherwise lifted
            directly as written, grammer and puctuation is Hall's.

            But in Defense there is NO mention of uji on the page or, the ones
            before and after. So there is nothing to say it is an Uji as defined
            by being created by imperial mandate, however if you want to go with
            "linage group" I think that would be a good arguement in support of
            it. Assuming your in or about that time frame.

            Sara
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... The author is decent. I ve got some of his stuff. I my have a copy of that particular book in a box in storage at the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 2, 2009
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!
              > "Government And Local Power In Japan 500-1700" by John Whitney Hall
              > Second printing 1970, SBN 691-03019-7, published by Princeton
              > University Press.
              The author is decent. I've got some of his stuff. I my have a copy of
              that particular book in a box in storage at the moment. The copyright
              date and publisher are by themselves somewhat indicative. 1970 is
              about the time that solid English language scholarship on East Asia
              really got going. Things to notice just from the title. The title
              says that the book is ambitious in scope. Later on, Mass was writing
              more narrowly focused books. Basically, please do read the book, but
              then go on to more focused books such as Hall's book about the
              Muromachi Age.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Solveig Throndardottir
              Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... Here they are writing about the emergence of the bakuhan system which was in effect during the Edo period. Like
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 2, 2009
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                Noble Cousins!

                Greetings from Solveig!

                > wait, Page 272, middle of the page "By 1572 the process had gone much
                > furthur and over 2/3 of the country had been brought under control of
                > thirteen great houses. These were the Uesugi, Hojo, Takeda, Tokugawa,
                > Oda, Asakura, Asai, Yamana, Mori, Chosokabe, Otomo, Ryuzoji, and
                > Shimazu." any spelling errors are my own but otherwise lifted
                > directly as written, grammer and puctuation is Hall's.

                Here they are writing about the emergence of the "bakuhan" system
                which was in effect during the Edo period. Like Napoleon, heads of
                great houses would set up close relatives as the military governors
                of provinces too distant for direct rule. This system was continued
                by the Tokugawa who rearranged holdings so that every province was
                either directly controlled by close relatives or allies or adjacent
                to such provinces. However, the samurai garrisoning the provinces
                were not in general family members nor did they claim kinship. Again,
                while most of the ancient uji were eventually extinguished, they
                remained the active kinship group larger than the family up until at
                least the nineteenth century. Why did most of the ancient uji
                disappear? Well, I suspect that people took every opportunity to
                claim membership in more prominent uji regardless of actual descent.
                This was certainly true during the Genpei War where the Minamoto were
                offering uji membership to anyone who would align with them.
                Consequently, if you look at lists of family names divided by uji,
                you will see lots and lots of entries under the Minamoto, the Taira,
                the Fujiwara, and a handful of other uji.

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bryant Richards
                ... Thank you for looking, and for sharing what you found. That is kind of what I am going for the lineage group . In Honor and Service, Uesugi no
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 2, 2009
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                  >But in Defense there is NO mention of uji on the page or, the ones before and after. So there is nothing to say >it is an Uji as defined by being created by imperial mandate, however if you want to go with
                  >"linage group" I think that would be a good arguement in support of it. Assuming your in or about that time >frame.

                  Thank you for looking, and for sharing what you found. That is kind of what I am going for the "lineage group".

                  In Honor and Service,
                  Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu




                  ________________________________
                  From: "the.lady.phoenix@..." <the.lady.phoenix@...>
                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 6:50:20 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Refrence





                  wait, Page 272, middle of the page "By 1572 the process had gone much
                  furthur and over 2/3 of the country had been brought under control of
                  thirteen great houses. These were the Uesugi, Hojo, Takeda, Tokugawa,
                  Oda, Asakura, Asai, Yamana, Mori, Chosokabe, Otomo, Ryuzoji, and
                  Shimazu." any spelling errors are my own but otherwise lifted
                  directly as written, grammer and puctuation is Hall's.


                  Sara






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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