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Re: [SCA-JML] On Uji and Clans

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  • Bryant Richards
    MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to those members who receive their mail in digest form (and to Kuro-hime s friend Steve the Intergalactic Fruitbat), we ask that
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 1, 2009
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      MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to those members who receive their mail in digest form (and to Kuro-hime's friend Steve the Intergalactic Fruitbat), we ask that you trim anything from previous posts that do not require repetition.

      Thank you.
      Saionji no Hanae, Pacific Time Zone Moderator

      >So, you have 2 things you need to prove to overturn the current thinking:

      >1) Show that "uji" was used to refer to warrior groups /in period/.

      >2) Show that it meant the same thing as an uji previously.
      Ok I will work on these

      >"no" has nothing to do with uji. Or at least, the two are not totally conflated. I think that's where you are >running into your problem.
      No this is making more since, atleast to me. I think I was trying to ask about using the "no" in my name, and all I got back was "no because Uesugi is not an Uji" when I was reading a number of things that where just saying that "no" meant "of" and similiar and nothing saying that only the Uji could use "no". Thats where I was getting confused by Solveig's remarks. So basicaly I just need to show in some use of "no" during my time period. I think I understand alot more now so thank you on this.

      >"no" had always meant that. The issue is that it stopped being used. In the Sengoku period, Uesugi Kenshin >was Uesugi Kenshin. Not Uesugi no Kenshin. Likewise, Yamanouchi Uesugi X was just that. This has
      >/nothing/ to do with whether it is an uji or not.
      I had been confused by this too, but it was my understanding that it was Uesugi Kenshin because he was the "leader" therefore he wasn't of the Uesugi clan he WAS the Uesugi clan. Not sure where I read that exactly.

      Anyway I have learned alot about this topic. In summary using "no" is simply out of time for Sengoku period, and that it is usable for certain periods. Also that Uji may have used "no" alot but that didn't mean other people couldn't use it. A main focus on if to use "no" or not should be more about the time period and not weither the X in "X no blah balh" is an Uji or not.

      I did just now order the book that stated Uesugi as an uji. I will let everyone know what I find out when I get it and read it. It seems to have been coauthered by a Japanese man of the name Dairoku Kikuchi/ Kikuchi Dairoku depending on where you read it. Having trouble finding out much about this man. The sites about him just give a brief summary of his education.

      In Honor and Service,
      Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu

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