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The N word

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  • wodeford
    Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this discussion. Authenticity is a
    Message 1 of 10 , May 30, 2009
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      Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is
      needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this
      discussion.

      Authenticity is a personal choice and a journey. If it is not yours,
      please do not feel that you have to be rude to those who feel
      differently. If it is yours, please do not feel that you have to be
      rude to those who feel differently.

      Pre-emptive rice-bowl peeing has no place in polite society.

      Many thanks,
      Saionji no Hanae
      West Kingdom
    • Ellen Badgley
      Seconded very, very emphatically. - Abe Akirakeiko ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 10 , May 30, 2009
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        Seconded very, very emphatically.
        - Abe Akirakeiko

        On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:19 PM, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is
        > needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this
        > discussion.
        >
        > Authenticity is a personal choice and a journey. If it is not yours,
        > please do not feel that you have to be rude to those who feel
        > differently. If it is yours, please do not feel that you have to be
        > rude to those who feel differently.
        >
        > Pre-emptive rice-bowl peeing has no place in polite society.
        >
        > Many thanks,
        > Saionji no Hanae
        > West Kingdom
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bryant Richards
        I think it is very plan that I wasn t calling anyone a Nazi. I was using the term as it has become used to mean Overly strict as in Fire Nazi meaning
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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          I think it is very plan that I wasn't calling anyone a Nazi. I was using the term as it has become used to mean "Overly strict" as in "Fire Nazi" meaning someone who goes around putting out every fire unattended. I have even heard this term used at SCA events as a job description. The guy whos job it is to put out fires is called a "Fire Nazi", so please do not think I would call anyone a Nazi from Germany, or a Neo-Nazi, or anything of that sort. I used the word as it is used in modern language, I guess it could be considered a slang. So there is no need to get all razzled.

          In Honor and Service,
          Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu




          ________________________________
          From: Ellen Badgley <flyingrat42@...>
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:27:46 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] The N word





          Seconded very, very emphatically.
          - Abe Akirakeiko

          On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:19 PM, wodeford <wodeford@yahoo. com> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is
          > needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this
          > discussion.
          >
          > Authenticity is a personal choice and a journey. If it is not yours,
          > please do not feel that you have to be rude to those who feel
          > differently. If it is yours, please do not feel that you have to be
          > rude to those who feel differently.
          >
          > Pre-emptive rice-bowl peeing has no place in polite society.
          >
          > Many thanks,
          > Saionji no Hanae
          > West Kingdom
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bryant Richards
          again I oplogize for this but I was not trying to make it out as I was calling anyone a Nazi I was using it as a slang of sorts as it is often used. In Honor
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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            again I oplogize for this but I was not trying to make it out as I was calling anyone a Nazi I was using it as a slang of sorts as it is often used.

            In Honor and Service,
            Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu




            ________________________________
            From: wodeford <wodeford@...>
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:19:59 AM
            Subject: [SCA-JML] The N word





            Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is
            needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this
            discussion.

            Authenticity is a personal choice and a journey. If it is not yours,
            please do not feel that you have to be rude to those who feel
            differently. If it is yours, please do not feel that you have to be
            rude to those who feel differently.

            Pre-emptive rice-bowl peeing has no place in polite society.

            Many thanks,
            Saionji no Hanae
            West Kingdom







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • the.lady.phoenix@gmail.com
            there are some that are overly sensitive to certain words. This just happens to be one of them that has more then 1 meaning. Just like alot of words that
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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              there are some that are overly sensitive to certain words. This just
              happens to be one of them that has more then 1 meaning. Just like
              alot of words that have changed or added meanings over the years.

              Want examples?

              Nigger, used now between two
              blacks/african-americans/coloured/whatever the "PC" term is now adays

              Wolf, until WWII it was a slang term for Homosexual men, after the war
              it was for straight men, that would "hunt" women for well I think you
              can figure it out

              Statesman, used to be someone that fought for states rights and a
              small federal government while in politcal service, now it means a
              dead politiation...... we need more statesmen.

              Gay, used to mean Merry or Happy, now it means guys that like to have
              sex with other guys but not women.

              Lesbian, used to mean anything produced and sold from the Isle of
              Lesbos in Greece, it was that way for centuries, now it means (in most
              minds) women that have sex with women instead of men.

              Spartan, used to mean a Citizen of the Greek city state of Sparta, now
              it means bare or minimal furnishings, etc.

              Not just limited to words! objects and symbols have had it happen as well.

              Swastika, for thousands of years on almost every contient it was a
              symbol of good luck, but then it was rotated 45 degrees and now is
              more closely related in most people's minds to anti-semetic nation of
              the Third Reich under the leadership of the Nazis

              Bi-fold garments, or skirts used to be uni-sex or male dress as well,
              now it's not. Don't believe me? look in a Sears catologe from before
              1960. FYI Kimonos, togas, etc are all bifold garments that are worn
              by both men and women. plus pants didn't really exist until the 1400s
              and

              Hose/Hosery until pants were invented from them in the 15th centurty
              were worn by men, now it's considered a "female" garment.

              Pants, until the current times, Pants were considered "male" dress and
              women were widely humilated if they wore them. example
              http://tgctr.org/tfa/?p=241 They call her a Transman but she could
              have just been Butch Lesbian.

              I say give the benift of the doubt, and if you find a word offensive,
              don't use it, if someone says it to you look up the meaning, odds are
              it might have another meaning that will make sense in context.

              Have a VERY gay day,
              Sara >:)


              On 01/06/2009, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@...> wrote:
              > again I oplogize for this but I was not trying to make it out as I was
              > calling anyone a Nazi I was using it as a slang of sorts as it is often
              > used.
              >
              > In Honor and Service,
              > Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: wodeford <wodeford@...>
              > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:19:59 AM
              > Subject: [SCA-JML] The N word
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is
              > needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this
              > discussion.
              >
              > Authenticity is a personal choice and a journey. If it is not yours,
              > please do not feel that you have to be rude to those who feel
              > differently. If it is yours, please do not feel that you have to be
              > rude to those who feel differently.
              >
              > Pre-emptive rice-bowl peeing has no place in polite society.
              >
              > Many thanks,
              > Saionji no Hanae
              > West Kingdom
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • the.lady.phoenix@gmail.com
              ohh I forgot to add information under the skirt s arguement so here it is In ancient Egypt their normal clothing was a loincloth wrapped around the hips and
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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                ohh I forgot to add information under the skirt's arguement so here it is

                In ancient Egypt their normal clothing was a loincloth wrapped around
                the hips and girdled at the waist. A cape was worn on the shoulders and later
                a long garment called a kalasiris was introduced. Men wore this as a skirt
                around their waist; women wore it over their upper body, or as a full-length
                garment that sometimes had sleeves.

                The Hebrews, Assyrians, and Babylonians all wore a long, sleeved garment
                similar to a nightshirt, with cloaks or kalasiris-like overgarments. These
                clothes appear to be stiff, with fringed and tasselled borders and square
                or rounded corners.

                For thousands of years in history we don't find pants and it is a relatively
                modern and culturally brief period of history where there was a distinction
                of pants only on men and dresses only on women.

                Even today in the Pacific and other areas of the world, many continue to
                wear a sarong or robe on males and females with only a small distinction
                between them.


                Sara

                On 01/06/2009, the.lady.phoenix@... <the.lady.phoenix@...> wrote:
                > there are some that are overly sensitive to certain words. This just
                > happens to be one of them that has more then 1 meaning. Just like
                > alot of words that have changed or added meanings over the years.
                >
                > Want examples?
                >
                > Nigger, used now between two
                > blacks/african-americans/coloured/whatever the "PC" term is now adays
                >
                > Wolf, until WWII it was a slang term for Homosexual men, after the war
                > it was for straight men, that would "hunt" women for well I think you
                > can figure it out
                >
                > Statesman, used to be someone that fought for states rights and a
                > small federal government while in politcal service, now it means a
                > dead politiation...... we need more statesmen.
                >
                > Gay, used to mean Merry or Happy, now it means guys that like to have
                > sex with other guys but not women.
                >
                > Lesbian, used to mean anything produced and sold from the Isle of
                > Lesbos in Greece, it was that way for centuries, now it means (in most
                > minds) women that have sex with women instead of men.
                >
                > Spartan, used to mean a Citizen of the Greek city state of Sparta, now
                > it means bare or minimal furnishings, etc.
                >
                > Not just limited to words! objects and symbols have had it happen as well.
                >
                > Swastika, for thousands of years on almost every contient it was a
                > symbol of good luck, but then it was rotated 45 degrees and now is
                > more closely related in most people's minds to anti-semetic nation of
                > the Third Reich under the leadership of the Nazis
                >
                > Bi-fold garments, or skirts used to be uni-sex or male dress as well,
                > now it's not. Don't believe me? look in a Sears catologe from before
                > 1960. FYI Kimonos, togas, etc are all bifold garments that are worn
                > by both men and women. plus pants didn't really exist until the 1400s
                > and
                >
                > Hose/Hosery until pants were invented from them in the 15th centurty
                > were worn by men, now it's considered a "female" garment.
                >
                > Pants, until the current times, Pants were considered "male" dress and
                > women were widely humilated if they wore them. example
                > http://tgctr.org/tfa/?p=241 They call her a Transman but she could
                > have just been Butch Lesbian.
                >
                > I say give the benift of the doubt, and if you find a word offensive,
                > don't use it, if someone says it to you look up the meaning, odds are
                > it might have another meaning that will make sense in context.
                >
                > Have a VERY gay day,
                > Sara >:)
                >
                >
                > On 01/06/2009, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@...> wrote:
                >> again I oplogize for this but I was not trying to make it out as I was
                >> calling anyone a Nazi I was using it as a slang of sorts as it is often
                >> used.
                >>
                >> In Honor and Service,
                >> Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ________________________________
                >> From: wodeford <wodeford@...>
                >> To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                >> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:19:59 AM
                >> Subject: [SCA-JML] The N word
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is
                >> needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this
                >> discussion.
                >>
                >> Authenticity is a personal choice and a journey. If it is not yours,
                >> please do not feel that you have to be rude to those who feel
                >> differently. If it is yours, please do not feel that you have to be
                >> rude to those who feel differently.
                >>
                >> Pre-emptive rice-bowl peeing has no place in polite society.
                >>
                >> Many thanks,
                >> Saionji no Hanae
                >> West Kingdom
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >
              • John Lyon
                You know, when I read the subject line for this, I immediately thought that someone had started talking about Ninjas. I recently caught the Spartan vs Ninja
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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                  You know, when I read the subject line for this, I immediately thought that
                  someone had started talking about Ninjas. I recently caught the "Spartan vs
                  Ninja" warrior thing on spike. <sigh>

                  On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:14 AM, <the.lady.phoenix@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > ohh I forgot to add information under the skirt's arguement so here it is
                  >
                  > In ancient Egypt their normal clothing was a loincloth wrapped around
                  > the hips and girdled at the waist. A cape was worn on the shoulders and
                  > later
                  > a long garment called a kalasiris was introduced. Men wore this as a skirt
                  > around their waist; women wore it over their upper body, or as a
                  > full-length
                  > garment that sometimes had sleeves.
                  >
                  > The Hebrews, Assyrians, and Babylonians all wore a long, sleeved garment
                  > similar to a nightshirt, with cloaks or kalasiris-like overgarments. These
                  > clothes appear to be stiff, with fringed and tasselled borders and square
                  > or rounded corners.
                  >
                  > For thousands of years in history we don't find pants and it is a
                  > relatively
                  > modern and culturally brief period of history where there was a distinction
                  > of pants only on men and dresses only on women.
                  >
                  > Even today in the Pacific and other areas of the world, many continue to
                  > wear a sarong or robe on males and females with only a small distinction
                  > between them.
                  >
                  > Sara
                  >
                  >
                  > On 01/06/2009, the.lady.phoenix@... <the.lady.phoenix%40gmail.com> <
                  > the.lady.phoenix@... <the.lady.phoenix%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                  > > there are some that are overly sensitive to certain words. This just
                  > > happens to be one of them that has more then 1 meaning. Just like
                  > > alot of words that have changed or added meanings over the years.
                  > >
                  > > Want examples?
                  > >
                  > > Nigger, used now between two
                  > > blacks/african-americans/coloured/whatever the "PC" term is now adays
                  > >
                  > > Wolf, until WWII it was a slang term for Homosexual men, after the war
                  > > it was for straight men, that would "hunt" women for well I think you
                  > > can figure it out
                  > >
                  > > Statesman, used to be someone that fought for states rights and a
                  > > small federal government while in politcal service, now it means a
                  > > dead politiation...... we need more statesmen.
                  > >
                  > > Gay, used to mean Merry or Happy, now it means guys that like to have
                  > > sex with other guys but not women.
                  > >
                  > > Lesbian, used to mean anything produced and sold from the Isle of
                  > > Lesbos in Greece, it was that way for centuries, now it means (in most
                  > > minds) women that have sex with women instead of men.
                  > >
                  > > Spartan, used to mean a Citizen of the Greek city state of Sparta, now
                  > > it means bare or minimal furnishings, etc.
                  > >
                  > > Not just limited to words! objects and symbols have had it happen as
                  > well.
                  > >
                  > > Swastika, for thousands of years on almost every contient it was a
                  > > symbol of good luck, but then it was rotated 45 degrees and now is
                  > > more closely related in most people's minds to anti-semetic nation of
                  > > the Third Reich under the leadership of the Nazis
                  > >
                  > > Bi-fold garments, or skirts used to be uni-sex or male dress as well,
                  > > now it's not. Don't believe me? look in a Sears catologe from before
                  > > 1960. FYI Kimonos, togas, etc are all bifold garments that are worn
                  > > by both men and women. plus pants didn't really exist until the 1400s
                  > > and
                  > >
                  > > Hose/Hosery until pants were invented from them in the 15th centurty
                  > > were worn by men, now it's considered a "female" garment.
                  > >
                  > > Pants, until the current times, Pants were considered "male" dress and
                  > > women were widely humilated if they wore them. example
                  > > http://tgctr.org/tfa/?p=241 They call her a Transman but she could
                  > > have just been Butch Lesbian.
                  > >
                  > > I say give the benift of the doubt, and if you find a word offensive,
                  > > don't use it, if someone says it to you look up the meaning, odds are
                  > > it might have another meaning that will make sense in context.
                  > >
                  > > Have a VERY gay day,
                  > > Sara >:)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On 01/06/2009, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@...<ninjalikereflex%40yahoo.com>>
                  > wrote:
                  > >> again I oplogize for this but I was not trying to make it out as I was
                  > >> calling anyone a Nazi I was using it as a slang of sorts as it is often
                  > >> used.
                  > >>
                  > >> In Honor and Service,
                  > >> Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ________________________________
                  > >> From: wodeford <wodeford@... <wodeford%40yahoo.com>>
                  > >> To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com <sca-jml%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > >> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:19:59 AM
                  > >> Subject: [SCA-JML] The N word
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Could we please not descend into name calling? The term Nazi is
                  > >> needlessly offensive to certain persons and has no place in this
                  > >> discussion.
                  > >>
                  > >> Authenticity is a personal choice and a journey. If it is not yours,
                  > >> please do not feel that you have to be rude to those who feel
                  > >> differently. If it is yours, please do not feel that you have to be
                  > >> rude to those who feel differently.
                  > >>
                  > >> Pre-emptive rice-bowl peeing has no place in polite society.
                  > >>
                  > >> Many thanks,
                  > >> Saionji no Hanae
                  > >> West Kingdom
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  "You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I
                  thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible
                  things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I
                  take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
                  -Marcus to Franklin in Babylon 5

                  John Lyon
                  aka The Ugly Dragon
                  aka Kita Jiru Toramassa


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rick Johnson
                  I think that there is a big difference between a fashion police and a fashion nazi . KJust like there is abg differnece between a fire-police and a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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                    I think that there is a big difference between a 'fashion police' and a 'fashion nazi'. KJust like there is abg differnece between a 'fire-police' and a 'fire-nazi'.

                    The former will come to me and say "wooden Inro with carved netsuke are a bit out of time for a Muromachi Samurai".
                    The latter will demand, "Jutte isn't Period so I don't wnt t osee you wearing those Jutte-Waraji at my event!" even though I made them myself out of whatever I had that gave the appearance of reality.

                    I've been to events where I wish there WERE fire-police.
                    I am an early riser and thus an early sleeper (too many years in the Air Force) and one event, I fell asleep while the partyng was in full swing.
                    Woke up early in the am to .. answer nature's call... and founf the bonfire still roaring (not burning to coals but waist high at least) with a bottle of lighter fluid nearby.
                    AND no one around. THe last person had appeared to have tossed all the wood on (to save wasting it I suppose) then gon to bed.
                    So I put the thing out and explored the downwind desert (in my pajamas) looking for sparks.

                    BUT, I have also woken up ealry, started my small coking fire from banked coals and went inside to change only to find a fire-nazi putting it out because he felt that NO fire should EVER be unattended. Plus a stern lecture to which I replied, "Who made you the fire warden?"
                    "ME!"

                    Big difference!
                    The former is someone who suggests in a positive manner.
                    The latter is a self-appointed fascist who lives to abuse people for innocent mistakes.


                    Rick Johnson,
                    PO Box 40451, Tucson, Az. 85717
                    geocities.com/RikJohnson39
                    "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither!"

                    Please note: message attached

                    From: the.lady.phoenix@...
                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] The N word
                    Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:08:27 +0000



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                  • Andrew Trembley
                    ... Just because you hear this term used doesn t mean it s polite or appropriate. I m all for Mel Brooks practice of making Nazis the object of ridicule; it s
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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                      Bryant Richards wrote:
                      > I think it is very plan that I wasn't calling anyone a Nazi. I was using the term as it has become used to mean "Overly strict" as in "Fire Nazi" meaning someone who goes around putting out every fire unattended. I have even heard this term used at SCA events as a job description.

                      Just because you hear this term used doesn't mean it's polite or
                      appropriate.

                      I'm all for Mel Brooks' practice of making Nazis the object of ridicule;
                      it's a great way to diminish their attractiveness and reduce their
                      chances (and those of people very like them) of coming to power again.

                      Using the name is such a trivial fashion, though, as a call for one's
                      own personal waaahmbulance, is tacky.

                      You *are* calling some people Nazis, even if you don't know who you're
                      doing it to. You don't know who has had this epithet thrown at them in
                      the past.

                      That's sticky. Some of us on this board have older friends with tattoos,
                      if you get my drift. Some of us have big swaths of the family tree that
                      were wiped out of existence in the 30's and 40's.

                      No, I'm not telling you who.

                      andy
                    • Bryant Richards
                      For shame! I have not seen the Spartan vs Ninja thing yet but from what everyone has said I am a bit scared to. Seems there are alot of questionable things
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 1, 2009
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                        For shame! I have not seen the Spartan vs Ninja thing yet but from what everyone has said I am a bit scared to. Seems there are alot of questionable things about it.

                        In Honor and Service,
                        Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu

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