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Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*

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  • Diane Taylor
    Okay, pardon me while I get quietly ill in a corner.   SpikeTV has started a show called Deadliest Warriors . The concept is, they pit one warrior against
    Message 1 of 20 , May 2, 2009
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      Okay, pardon me while I get quietly ill in a corner.   SpikeTV has started a show called 'Deadliest Warriors' .

      The concept is, they pit one warrior against another using modern technology and ancient weapons, then runt he computer sim to see who wins.

      All fine and good until you get these... ahem... experts... in their chosen field to demonstrate their weapons.  Oh, yeah, and demonstrate them CORRECTLY.  Puhleeze. I'm sorry, I just got done watching the above titled episodes.  *shaking head* 

      I'm sorry, but has anyone else seen this program?  Namely the two mentioned?

      Oh, the other one I've seen is Pirate Vs Knight.  *cough coughPiratewinscough*


      Just wanted to give  you some fodder to toss around,
      Kujo no Ume

      See ya next time,



      Diane Taylor



      http://dianet-write.weebly.com/

      http://paranormal-minds.blogspot.com/

      http://groups.google.com/group/order-of-demented-dreamers



      Writers don't get mad, they write books.























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • sekinakagawa@aol.com
      Konishiwa, I watched the one about Samurai VS Viking, I thought they were all talking mucho poo-poo but since the end course was the Samurai beating the Viking
      Message 2 of 20 , May 2, 2009
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        Konishiwa,
        I watched the one about Samurai VS Viking, I thought they were all talking
        mucho poo-poo but since the end course was the Samurai beating the Viking I
        was happy (never mind that my wife who is truly Norwegian in descent was
        totally piss and still not talking to me. But all I said was what can you
        expect, it was obvious, hehehe.

        Humbly,
        Sukeie

        To ask a question may be a moments' shame,
        But not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.
        **************Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web.
        Try the new Email Toolbar now!
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sonny Scott
        In my opinion, in Ninja vs. Spartan, they gave the Spartan shield way too much credit. ________________________________ From: sekinakagawa@aol.com
        Message 3 of 20 , May 2, 2009
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          In my opinion, in Ninja vs. Spartan, they gave the Spartan shield way too much credit.




          ________________________________
          From: "sekinakagawa@..." <sekinakagawa@...>
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2009 9:04:42 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*





          Konishiwa,
          I watched the one about Samurai VS Viking, I thought they were all talking
          mucho poo-poo but since the end course was the Samurai beating the Viking I
          was happy (never mind that my wife who is truly Norwegian in descent was
          totally piss and still not talking to me. But all I said was what can you
          expect, it was obvious, hehehe.

          Humbly,
          Sukeie

          To ask a question may be a moments' shame,
          But not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.
          ************ **Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web.
          Try the new Email Toolbar now!
          (http://toolbar. aol.com/mail/ download. html?ncid= txtlnkusdown0000 0027)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JL Badgley
          ... But shields are indestructible walls that no weapon can get through! And they can t be grabbed, yanked, or pulled (without a weapon, anyway). ;) Sorry,
          Message 4 of 20 , May 2, 2009
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            On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Sonny Scott <onesoni@...> wrote:
            > In my opinion, in Ninja vs. Spartan, they gave the Spartan shield way too much credit.
            >
            But shields are indestructible walls that no weapon can get through!
            And they can't be grabbed, yanked, or pulled (without a weapon,
            anyway). ;)

            Sorry, anti-shield bias showing :)


            -Ii
          • Diane Taylor
            My major problem is the entire scenario itself. A Ninja would probably do minor attacks ont he Spartan... but it would have been either dawn or dusk... to find
            Message 5 of 20 , May 2, 2009
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              My major problem is the entire scenario itself. A Ninja would probably do minor attacks ont he Spartan... but it would have been either dawn or dusk... to find out the strengths and weaknesses of the Spartan Weapons and armor.... then basically withdraw and kill him in his sleep later on.

              Instead of creeping up on the warrior from behind, he could have used a bow with a poisoned arrow and got any one of the unarmored spots.... Back of the knee, armpit, back of the neck, arms... and just waited for the warrior to drop dead.

              * much rolling of eyes*   Sorry, I didn't agree with that one at all.  But that's just me.

              YIS,
              Kujo no Ume

              See ya next time,



              Diane Taylor



              http://dianet-write.weebly.com/

              http://paranormal-minds.blogspot.com/

              http://groups.google.com/group/order-of-demented-dreamers



              Writers don't get mad, they write books.

              _





















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • shinomoto yoshinaga
              I like the show. I find the pair ups interesting. the shit talking while throwing bad combos and flailing the shields behind the back, to me is hilarious.
              Message 6 of 20 , May 3, 2009
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                I like the show. I find the pair ups interesting. the shit talking while throwing bad combos and flailing the shields behind the back, to me is hilarious.

                Through the bitter and the sweet.

                The fray stands firm!

                --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Diane Taylor <dianet_write@...> wrote:
                From: Diane Taylor <dianet_write@...>
                Subject: [SCA-JML] Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 5:00 PM

















                Okay, pardon me while I get quietly ill in a corner.   SpikeTV has started a show called 'Deadliest Warriors' .



                The concept is, they pit one warrior against another using modern technology and ancient weapons, then runt he computer sim to see who wins.



                All fine and good until you get these... ahem... experts... in their chosen field to demonstrate their weapons.  Oh, yeah, and demonstrate them CORRECTLY.  Puhleeze. I'm sorry, I just got done watching the above titled episodes.  *shaking head* 



                I'm sorry, but has anyone else seen this program?  Namely the two mentioned?



                Oh, the other one I've seen is Pirate Vs Knight.  *cough coughPiratewinscoug h*



                Just wanted to give  you some fodder to toss around,

                Kujo no Ume



                See ya next time,



                Diane Taylor



                http://dianet- write.weebly. com/



                http://paranormal- minds.blogspot. com/



                http://groups. google.com/ group/order- of-demented- dreamers



                Writers don't get mad, they write books.





















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nick starnes
                A Viking would not stand a chance against a Samurai.  Viking use brute force to smash Shields and hack with their large, unbalanced swords. A Samurai would
                Message 7 of 20 , May 3, 2009
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                  A Viking would not stand a chance against a Samurai.  Viking use brute force to smash Shields and hack with their large, unbalanced swords. A Samurai would let the Viking ware himself out avoiding clash and then go in for the Kill. I think this is the easiest debate there is. There is a huge difference between unskilled brute force against a Martial art. Let the Viking swing and swing at you. Avoid it let him tire and make the misdirection move and slice an artery. Samurai can only kill hitting a small area,arm pits, throat etc. The have the training to avoid a brute hacking at them. Look at what they did to the Mongols. The first attack not the tsunami destroying the fleet.




                  ________________________________
                  From: shinomoto yoshinaga <frayyosh@...>
                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 2:29:04 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*





                  I like the show. I find the pair ups interesting. the shit talking while throwing bad combos and flailing the shields behind the back, to me is hilarious.

                  Through the bitter and the sweet.

                  The fray stands firm!

                  --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Diane Taylor <dianet_write@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                  From: Diane Taylor <dianet_write@ yahoo.com>
                  Subject: [SCA-JML] Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*
                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups .com
                  Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 5:00 PM

                  Okay, pardon me while I get quietly ill in a corner.   SpikeTV has started a show called 'Deadliest Warriors' .

                  The concept is, they pit one warrior against another using modern technology and ancient weapons, then runt he computer sim to see who wins.

                  All fine and good until you get these... ahem... experts... in their chosen field to demonstrate their weapons.  Oh, yeah, and demonstrate them CORRECTLY.  Puhleeze. I'm sorry, I just got done watching the above titled episodes.  *shaking head* 

                  I'm sorry, but has anyone else seen this program?  Namely the two mentioned?

                  Oh, the other one I've seen is Pirate Vs Knight.  *cough coughPiratewinscoug h*

                  Just wanted to give  you some fodder to toss around,

                  Kujo no Ume

                  See ya next time,

                  Diane Taylor

                  http://dianet- write.weebly. com/

                  http://paranormal- minds.blogspot. com/

                  http://groups. google.com/ group/order- of-demented- dreamers

                  Writers don't get mad, they write books.













                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Scott
                  I have watched all of the Deadliest Warrior episodes so far. I take them for what they are. Entertainment, not reality. I am not so big on the out comes as how
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 3, 2009
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                    I have watched all of the Deadliest Warrior episodes so far. I take them for what they are. Entertainment, not reality. I am not so big on the out comes as how they test them. SUch as, since this is a forum focused on Japan, the Viking v. Samurai episode. They used a stuntman with really crappy technique rather than someone actually trained in how to properly used the Japanese sword to test it. Another thing is that using modern replica weapons in the case of the Japanese weapons are usually inferior to the weapons that would have been used. Now, one could argue about the equipment and training of the Ashigaru as being low. But, the idea was to test the "professional" samurai born and raised in a warrior family and such. Also, the modern replica of the knights sword seemed to be a whole lot sharper than what MOST experts think would be historically acurate.
                  • Nick starnes
                    The Viking did not have the metallurgy the Japanese sword makers did. There is no way an 800 A,D sword would stand up to a Japanese folded 100,12th 15th
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 3, 2009
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                      The Viking did not have the metallurgy the Japanese sword makers did. There is no way an 800 A,D sword would stand up to a Japanese folded 100,12th 15th century etc, or more times sword who's cutting edge was of a diff. metallurgy for sharpness than thte spine  of which was a diff. metal . A diff. Rockwell hardening . the point being that just "Sword on Sword" the Vikings could not compete. The discipline of a Samurai and the "Martial Art" aspect would dominate. The big hulking German or Norwegian could not stand up to the the "Bushido" of the Samurai.




                      ________________________________
                      From: Scott <scottc_4@...>
                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 5:58:15 PM
                      Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*





                      I have watched all of the Deadliest Warrior episodes so far. I take them for what they are. Entertainment, not reality. I am not so big on the out comes as how they test them. SUch as, since this is a forum focused on Japan, the Viking v. Samurai episode. They used a stuntman with really crappy technique rather than someone actually trained in how to properly used the Japanese sword to test it. Another thing is that using modern replica weapons in the case of the Japanese weapons are usually inferior to the weapons that would have been used. Now, one could argue about the equipment and training of the Ashigaru as being low. But, the idea was to test the "professional" samurai born and raised in a warrior family and such. Also, the modern replica of the knights sword seemed to be a whole lot sharper than what MOST experts think would be historically acurate.







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • autumnriver
                      IMHO, it s apples vs oranges, with much the same results. In Ninja vs. Spartans, they forced a scenario where a ninja would face a Spartan one on one. Like
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                        IMHO, it's apples vs oranges, with much the same results.

                        In Ninja vs. Spartans, they forced a scenario where a ninja would face a Spartan one on one. Like that would ever happen? Spartans ALWAYS fought as part of a team--they were famous for it. Ninja were spies--if they did their job right, they wouldn't have to fight at all.

                        Same thing with Viking vs. Samurai. The Vikings were raiders and liked to fight with a locked shield wall whenever possible. When they fought each other, it was usually aboard a ship. IIRC, Samurai tended to break up to fight individually during battle, at least until they had muskets. The Samurai had better weapons, but the Vikings weren't afraid of the sea. (But then again, look what happened to the Mongols when they tried the nautical approach!)

                        I do think a Knight vs. Samurai episode would be amusing. Bushido vs. Chivalry! In my twisted imagination, the end result would not be about armor, technology or tactics, but who wrote the best poetry. ;-D

                        You know, this Tuesday's episode is Mafia vs. Yakuza. I nearly died laughing when I saw the preview. Why, yes, I am going to watch it, just for the LOLZ.

                        --Ki no Kotori
                      • JL Badgley
                        ... Huh? I d say that the Vikings probably had better steel. They didn t need to differentially harden to get something that wouldn t break but would still be
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                          On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Nick starnes <vns2112@...> wrote:
                          > The Viking did not have the metallurgy the Japanese sword makers did. There is no way an 800 A,D sword would stand up to a Japanese folded 100,12th 15th century etc, or more times sword who's cutting edge was of a diff. metallurgy for sharpness than thte spine  of which was a diff. metal . A diff. Rockwell hardening . the point being that just "Sword on Sword" the Vikings could not compete. The discipline of a Samurai and the "Martial Art" aspect would dominate. The big hulking German or Norwegian could not stand up to the the "Bushido" of the Samurai.
                          >

                          Huh?

                          I'd say that the Vikings probably had better steel. They didn't need
                          to differentially harden to get something that wouldn't break but
                          would still be flexible--and they were likely using bog iron, I've
                          been led to understand, rather than mined iron ore.

                          And who says they just use brute force? Just because we don't have a
                          continuing tradition of martial arts, doesn't mean it didn't
                          exist--any culture that routinely fights and goes to war is going to
                          have soldiers that know what to do with the tools they are given... so
                          I'm hoping this is in jest. Otherwise, you might as well say that
                          most of the samurai before the Edo period were just hulking brutes,
                          too, since there aren't schools recorded for most of them.

                          The problem with any of these is that, even one on one, it depends a
                          lot on the circumstances and the fighter. To try to say one type of
                          general fighting is better than another just seems ridiculous to me.

                          Sigh, and now I've gone and added to the pile of fertilizer.


                          -Ii
                        • Diane Taylor
                          My money s on the Yakuza.   *Yes, I ve got it set up to record* YIS, Kujo no Ume See ya next time, Diane Taylor http://dianet-write.weebly.com/
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                            My money's on the Yakuza.   *Yes, I've got it set up to record*

                            YIS,
                            Kujo no Ume

                            See ya next time,



                            Diane Taylor



                            http://dianet-write.weebly.com/

                            http://paranormal-minds.blogspot.com/

                            http://groups.google.com/group/order-of-demented-dreamers



                            Writers don't get mad, they write books.

                            --- On Mon, 5/4/09, autumnriver <tace@...> wrote:

                            From: autumnriver <tace@...>
                            Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*
                            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 6:22 AM

















                            IMHO, it's apples vs oranges, with much the same results.



                            In Ninja vs. Spartans, they forced a scenario where a ninja would face a Spartan one on one. Like that would ever happen? Spartans ALWAYS fought as part of a team--they were famous for it. Ninja were spies--if they did their job right, they wouldn't have to fight at all.



                            Same thing with Viking vs. Samurai. The Vikings were raiders and liked to fight with a locked shield wall whenever possible. When they fought each other, it was usually aboard a ship. IIRC, Samurai tended to break up to fight individually during battle, at least until they had muskets. The Samurai had better weapons, but the Vikings weren't afraid of the sea. (But then again, look what happened to the Mongols when they tried the nautical approach!)



                            I do think a Knight vs. Samurai episode would be amusing. Bushido vs. Chivalry! In my twisted imagination, the end result would not be about armor, technology or tactics, but who wrote the best poetry. ;-D



                            You know, this Tuesday's episode is Mafia vs. Yakuza. I nearly died laughing when I saw the preview. Why, yes, I am going to watch it, just for the LOLZ.



                            --Ki no Kotori































                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • aimee brooks
                            I watched the ninja vs spartan episode myself and found their simulation to be wanting. In the end battle, the ninja drew his sword and screamed to launch an
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                              I watched the ninja vs spartan episode myself and found their simulation
                              to be wanting. In the end battle, the ninja drew his sword and screamed
                              to launch an attack, while still out of striking range. Like THAT would
                              ever happen. Ninja were known as silent killers for a reason!
                              And one would think that the ninja would figure out pretty quickly that
                              he needed to bypass that shield somehow and not just stand there hucking
                              things at it. Likewise with the spartan chasing the ninja into the
                              woods- wasn't that one of the worst things to do when dealing with
                              ninja? Ninja exelled at fighting in places like that, where they had
                              lots of cover to launch sneak attacks from.
                              -Hirokawa no Tsuru

                              autumnriver wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > IMHO, it's apples vs oranges, with much the same results.
                              >
                              > In Ninja vs. Spartans, they forced a scenario where a ninja would face
                              > a Spartan one on one. Like that would ever happen? Spartans ALWAYS
                              > fought as part of a team--they were famous for it. Ninja were
                              > spies--if they did their job right, they wouldn't have to fight at all.
                              >
                              > Same thing with Viking vs. Samurai. The Vikings were raiders and liked
                              > to fight with a locked shield wall whenever possible. When they fought
                              > each other, it was usually aboard a ship. IIRC, Samurai tended to
                              > break up to fight individually during battle, at least until they had
                              > muskets. The Samurai had better weapons, but the Vikings weren't
                              > afraid of the sea. (But then again, look what happened to the Mongols
                              > when they tried the nautical approach!)
                              >
                              > I do think a Knight vs. Samurai episode would be amusing. Bushido vs.
                              > Chivalry! In my twisted imagination, the end result would not be about
                              > armor, technology or tactics, but who wrote the best poetry. ;-D
                              >
                              > You know, this Tuesday's episode is Mafia vs. Yakuza. I nearly died
                              > laughing when I saw the preview. Why, yes, I am going to watch it,
                              > just for the LOLZ.
                              >
                              > --Ki no Kotori
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                              The final battle is a fanciful demonstration based on the numbers generated in the simulations. They generally try to demonstrate why each result in the
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                The final battle is a fanciful demonstration based on the numbers generated
                                in the simulations. They generally try to demonstrate why each result in
                                the simulations came out like they did.

                                The whole premise requires the suspension of disbelief, and there are many
                                factors they are not yet able to compensate for (like common unit size,
                                sneakiness, and efficacy of fighting style), but it is at least an
                                interesting exercise, and quite entertaining. I loved it when the pirate
                                shot the feudal knight in the face ;)

                                Live, Love, Learn!
                                -Chiba


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                aimee brooks
                                Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 12:15 PM
                                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*

                                I watched the ninja vs spartan episode myself and found their simulation
                                to be wanting. In the end battle, the ninja drew his sword and screamed
                                to launch an attack, while still out of striking range. Like THAT would
                                ever happen. Ninja were known as silent killers for a reason!
                                And one would think that the ninja would figure out pretty quickly that
                                he needed to bypass that shield somehow and not just stand there hucking
                                things at it. Likewise with the spartan chasing the ninja into the
                                woods- wasn't that one of the worst things to do when dealing with
                                ninja? Ninja exelled at fighting in places like that, where they had
                                lots of cover to launch sneak attacks from.
                                -Hirokawa no Tsuru

                                autumnriver wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > IMHO, it's apples vs oranges, with much the same results.
                                >
                                > In Ninja vs. Spartans, they forced a scenario where a ninja would face
                                > a Spartan one on one. Like that would ever happen? Spartans ALWAYS
                                > fought as part of a team--they were famous for it. Ninja were
                                > spies--if they did their job right, they wouldn't have to fight at all.
                                >
                                > Same thing with Viking vs. Samurai. The Vikings were raiders and liked
                                > to fight with a locked shield wall whenever possible. When they fought
                                > each other, it was usually aboard a ship. IIRC, Samurai tended to
                                > break up to fight individually during battle, at least until they had
                                > muskets. The Samurai had better weapons, but the Vikings weren't
                                > afraid of the sea. (But then again, look what happened to the Mongols
                                > when they tried the nautical approach!)
                                >
                                > I do think a Knight vs. Samurai episode would be amusing. Bushido vs.
                                > Chivalry! In my twisted imagination, the end result would not be about
                                > armor, technology or tactics, but who wrote the best poetry. ;-D
                                >
                                > You know, this Tuesday's episode is Mafia vs. Yakuza. I nearly died
                                > laughing when I saw the preview. Why, yes, I am going to watch it,
                                > just for the LOLZ.
                                >
                                > --Ki no Kotori
                                >



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                              • Rick Johnson
                                Simulations are only as good as the guy who programs them. And the guy is rarely an expert in the field he creates the simulations for. You can be in the field
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                  Simulations are only as good as the guy who programs them.
                                  And the guy is rarely an expert in the field he creates the simulations for.

                                  You can be in the field practicing with Viking and Japanese swords, learning from experts and taking millions of notes and reading every book on the subject or
                                  .. you can sit at a computer and learn everythign there is about programs.

                                  But if you try to do both, you will never be an expert at either.


                                  Rick Johnson,
                                  PO Box 40451, Tucson, Az. 85717
                                  geocities.com/RikJohnson39
                                  "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither!"

                                  Please note: message attached

                                  From: Chibasama Ryuichiro <chiba@...>
                                  To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*
                                  Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:38:51 -0400


                                  ____________________________________________________________
                                  Prices, software, charts & analysis. Click here to open your online FX trading account.
                                  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHQoLsWpXlzJTLjElIFONtn1Lkwdob9lv3sJOMB0m5SNqVYMHR5NO/

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                                • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                                  Definitely. Apparently there s seven years of study involved in the simulation algorithms, but who knows how accurate that is. I d say, they re still a long
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                    Definitely. Apparently there's seven years of study involved in the
                                    simulation algorithms, but who knows how accurate that is.

                                    I'd say, they're still a long way from 'definitive', but they're doing 'ok'.
                                    Good enough for television, not nearly good enough for science/history.

                                    Live, Love, Learn!
                                    -Chiba


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    Rick Johnson
                                    Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 12:51 PM
                                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*

                                    Simulations are only as good as the guy who programs them.
                                    And the guy is rarely an expert in the field he creates the simulations for.

                                    You can be in the field practicing with Viking and Japanese swords, learning
                                    from experts and taking millions of notes and reading every book on the
                                    subject or
                                    .. you can sit at a computer and learn everythign there is about programs.

                                    But if you try to do both, you will never be an expert at either.


                                    Rick Johnson,
                                    PO Box 40451, Tucson, Az. 85717
                                    geocities.com/RikJohnson39
                                    "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security
                                    will soon find that they have neither!"

                                    Please note: message attached

                                    From: Chibasama Ryuichiro <chiba@...>
                                    To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*
                                    Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:38:51 -0400


                                    ____________________________________________________________
                                    Prices, software, charts & analysis. Click here to open your online FX
                                    trading account.
                                    http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHQoLsWpXlzJTLjElIFONtn1Lk
                                    wdob9lv3sJOMB0m5SNqVYMHR5NO/

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                                  • wodeford
                                    This is why I pretty much live on movies and PBS any more.....
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                      This is why I pretty much live on movies and PBS any more.....
                                    • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                                      Greetings, My thin with the Ninja scenario is the fact that I remember reading in one of AJ book s that the ninja were as normal looking as you and I in
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                        Greetings,
                                        My thin with the Ninja scenario is the fact that I remember reading in
                                        one of AJ book's that the ninja were as normal "looking" as you and I in the
                                        sense that they infiltrated the enemy as garners, cooks, peddlers and so on
                                        so that they would not look out of place and effectively collect
                                        information. As per assassinations, I believe they were pretty stealthy and it would
                                        have been a silent attack, none of the "movie" stuff. Just my two Yen.

                                        Humbly,
                                        -Sukeie

                                        To ask a question may be a moments' shame,
                                        But not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.


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                                      • Rick Johnson
                                        ... In any army, les than 5% would be really excellent fighters. Most would be front-line combat troops with enough training to stay alive and kill... like
                                        Message 19 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                          >>My thin with the Ninja scenario is the fact that I remember reading in one of AJ book's that the ninja were as normal "looking" as you and I in the sense that they infiltrated the enemy as garners, cooks, peddlers and so on
                                          >>As per assassinations, I believe they were pretty stealthy and it would have been a silent attack, none of the "movie" stuff. Just my two Yen.

                                          In any army, les than 5% would be really excellent fighters. Most would be front-line combat troops with enough training to stay alive and kill... like me.
                                          Look at the US Army. 95% are front line grunts, les than 5% would be Rangers or Delta Force or whatever.

                                          Same in Japan with 95% being low-level Samurai with soldier-grade swords or spears and less than 5% being equal to our image of Tishiro Mifune.

                                          As for ninja, they were spies, not super-soldiers. When they killed, they'd prefer to shove a cheap sword into someone's back or poison them from a distance or a dagger in the kidney while they were 'in congress' and defenseless. So you wouldn't find many, if any, who would be what we think of as Ashida Kim or Sho Kosugi.

                                          Vikings tended to prefer to shoot people from a distance with bows and chase after unarmed civilians with axes. You can't spend loot if you face off agaisnt a trained army! And far too many vikings were.. farmers who went raiding withour much formal training.


                                          So whern you do simulations like this, are you assuming front-line grunt agaisnt front-line grunt or the equivalent of Spetznost against Delta-Force? Sho against Toshiro?
                                          Or will you match some Danish farmer who only owns an axe plus his father's stolen and rusty byrnie against the best Japan has to offer?

                                          It the old "Rapier vs Katana" argument all over again.







                                          Rick Johnson,
                                          PO Box 40451, Tucson, Az. 85717
                                          geocities.com/RikJohnson39
                                          "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security will soon find that they have neither!"

                                          Please note: message attached

                                          From: sekinakagawa@...
                                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Samurai vs Viking Ninja vs Spartan?? *gag*
                                          Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:05:19 EDT



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                                        • James Eckman
                                          Why are we even discussing this, everyone knows that NINJA are the world s greatest fighters! Just like in the movies ;) Though frankly I think the Romans
                                          Message 20 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                            Why are we even discussing this, everyone knows that NINJA are the
                                            world's greatest fighters! Just like in the movies ;)

                                            Though frankly I think the Romans would kick all of their asses since
                                            historically they kicked two of them and until the Sengoku period
                                            Japanese armies were poorly organized. I would also say small unit
                                            tactics of the Japanese were pretty much every man for himself.... Not a
                                            good tactic against those cheating, sneaky, triple-teaming Romans.

                                            AKA soldiers versus warriors.

                                            > A Viking would not stand a chance against a Samurai.
                                            Oops, there were historical samurai whose ass I could have kicked. Like
                                            samurai infant ;) It's a social class, Viking is a job title. I suspect
                                            samurai accountant would have his ass kicked by a Viking.
                                            > Viking use brute force to smash Shields and hack with their large, unbalanced swords.
                                            Brute force is good sometimes. A highly tempered sword struck hard with
                                            a big heavy nasty ax might not survive since this was a problem against
                                            other Japanese as well. Though wearing western armor on a Japanese
                                            summer day would be an extra special experience. LA is bad enough and
                                            there's no humidity!
                                            > Look at what they did to the Mongols.
                                            >
                                            You mean like have being almost totally defeated by a bunch of reluctant
                                            Korean conscripts....
                                            > Just wanted to give you some fodder to toss around,
                                            >
                                            Or toss up ;) Ahh reminds me of playing D&D....
                                            > Posted by: "autumnriver"
                                            > I do think a Knight vs. Samurai episode would be amusing. Bushido vs. Chivalry! In my twisted imagination, the end result would not be about armor, technology or tactics, but who wrote the best poetry. ;-D
                                            >
                                            Painting duels!!!! Musashi would have that one nailed.
                                            > You know, this Tuesday's episode is Mafia vs. Yakuza. I nearly died laughing when I saw the preview. Why, yes, I am going to watch it, just for the LOLZ.
                                            >
                                            That is soooo sick!
                                            > Sigh, and now I've gone and added to the pile of fertilizer.
                                            >
                                            > -Ii
                                            >
                                            It just makes me feel like a teenager again.... hmmm fertilizer generator

                                            Jim
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