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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Questions for Momoyama outfit

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  • JL Badgley
    ... Ditto. I usually put in a false seam because it is easier than cutting and resewing (especially since that would require hemming--which they wouldn t
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 8, 2009
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      On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:55 AM, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
      > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Samantha Fina" <genevra1676@...> wrote:
      >
      >> 1.  How heretical would it be to leave the back of the kosode as one panel?
      >
      > It won't hang quite right. Now, I cut kosode the way you propose sometimes and I put in a false back seam, so it hangs properly. Is there any way you can try to match your print?

      Ditto. I usually put in a false seam because it is easier than
      cutting and resewing (especially since that would require
      hemming--which they wouldn't necessarily have worried about in the
      original).

      Know that, when things were put together in period, it was not
      uncommon for there to be a small mismatch at the seam. Sometimes
      people dyed to the seam, and sometimes they just did what they could.
      I've seen some outfits where they barely worried about it.

      >> 2.  Does the innermost kosode layer have to be white?
      >
      > It usually is. Layers will show at your hem and the backs of your sleeves.

      Usually, this is correct. The difference tends to be with men and
      peasant garments (the latter because there is often only one layer at
      all, and the sleeves are usually tubular, not the classic curved
      rectangular look).

      >  3.  Is the narrow obi wrapped just once or several times around the waist before being knotted in front?
      >
      > Up to you. I find that long enough to go twice around, knot and hang to the knees works very well for me.

      I think you will find that wrapping merely once will not be as secure
      as going around the body at least twice.


      -Ii
    • onewringgold
      By a false seam, do you mean basically taking the center of the back panel (if it s one piece) and turning it under slightly like you would a flat-felled seam?
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 10, 2009
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        By a false seam, do you mean basically taking the center of the back panel (if it's one piece) and turning it under slightly like you would a flat-felled seam? Because I must admit I've been guilty of this heresy as well, not realizing it made a difference in how the garment hangs on the body.

        Kajiyama Shinobu
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: JL Badgley
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 6:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Questions for Momoyama outfit





        On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:55 AM, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
        > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Samantha Fina" <genevra1676@...> wrote:
        >
        >> 1. How heretical would it be to leave the back of the kosode as one panel?
        >
        > It won't hang quite right. Now, I cut kosode the way you propose sometimes and I put in a false back seam, so it hangs properly. Is there any way you can try to match your print?

        Ditto. I usually put in a false seam because it is easier than
        cutting and resewing (especially since that would require
        hemming--which they wouldn't necessarily have worried about in the
        original).

        Know that, when things were put together in period, it was not
        uncommon for there to be a small mismatch at the seam. Sometimes
        people dyed to the seam, and sometimes they just did what they could.
        I've seen some outfits where they barely worried about it.

        >> 2. Does the innermost kosode layer have to be white?
        >
        > It usually is. Layers will show at your hem and the backs of your sleeves.

        Usually, this is correct. The difference tends to be with men and
        peasant garments (the latter because there is often only one layer at
        all, and the sleeves are usually tubular, not the classic curved
        rectangular look).

        > 3. Is the narrow obi wrapped just once or several times around the waist before being knotted in front?
        >
        > Up to you. I find that long enough to go twice around, knot and hang to the knees works very well for me.

        I think you will find that wrapping merely once will not be as secure
        as going around the body at least twice.

        -Ii



        ____________________________________________________________
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Samantha Fina
        Would taking the back panel in more at the side seams help with the not-hanging-right issue? I don t know if I have enough material to match up the print if I
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 14, 2009
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          Would taking the back panel in more at the side seams help with the not-hanging-right issue? I don't know if I have enough material to match up the print if I put in a back seam, real or false. Though I suppose if I put in a fairly teeny false seam the mismatch won't be too bad . . .

          Thanks for all the answers to my questions. I hopefully have enough of the dark orange material to make a false layer at the appropriate edges of the kosode. And I thought that the obi did get wrapped at least twice, but I wanted confirmation from you far more knowledgeable gentles. :) Thanks again,

          Genevra

          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "onewringgold" <onewringgold@...> wrote:
          >
          > By a false seam, do you mean basically taking the center of the back panel (if it's one piece) and turning it under slightly like you would a flat-felled seam? Because I must admit I've been guilty of this heresy as well, not realizing it made a difference in how the garment hangs on the body.
          >
          > Kajiyama Shinobu
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: JL Badgley
          > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 6:44 PM
          > Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Questions for Momoyama outfit
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:55 AM, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
          > > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Samantha Fina" <genevra1676@> wrote:
          > >
          > >> 1. How heretical would it be to leave the back of the kosode as one panel?
          > >
          > > It won't hang quite right. Now, I cut kosode the way you propose sometimes and I put in a false back seam, so it hangs properly. Is there any way you can try to match your print?
          >
          > Ditto. I usually put in a false seam because it is easier than
          > cutting and resewing (especially since that would require
          > hemming--which they wouldn't necessarily have worried about in the
          > original).
          >
          > Know that, when things were put together in period, it was not
          > uncommon for there to be a small mismatch at the seam. Sometimes
          > people dyed to the seam, and sometimes they just did what they could.
          > I've seen some outfits where they barely worried about it.
          >
          > >> 2. Does the innermost kosode layer have to be white?
          > >
          > > It usually is. Layers will show at your hem and the backs of your sleeves.
          >
          > Usually, this is correct. The difference tends to be with men and
          > peasant garments (the latter because there is often only one layer at
          > all, and the sleeves are usually tubular, not the classic curved
          > rectangular look).
          >
          > > 3. Is the narrow obi wrapped just once or several times around the waist before being knotted in front?
          > >
          > > Up to you. I find that long enough to go twice around, knot and hang to the knees works very well for me.
          >
          > I think you will find that wrapping merely once will not be as secure
          > as going around the body at least twice.
          >
          > -Ii
        • wodeford
          ... My profound apologies for not responding to these sooner. I have been offline for a bit. All you need to do for a false back seam is fold the double-width
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 17, 2009
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            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "onewringgold" <onewringgold@...> wrote:
            >
            > By a false seam, do you mean basically taking the center of the back panel (if it's one piece) and turning it under slightly like you would a flat-felled seam?

            My profound apologies for not responding to these sooner. I have been offline for a bit.

            All you need to do for a false back seam is fold the double-width back panel in half (outer side of the fabric inside of the fold) and use a line of running stitch to form the seam. The whole point is to save you from having to use a more complicated seam finishing treatment, flat-felling included.

            For Genevra-hime, taking in the sides will only take in the sides of your garment. Your false back seam can use as narrow a seam allowance as you can manage to make it - mine are often a total of 5/16" sewn by hand. If you press your fold first and use a machine, you could conceivably go even narrower.

            Good luck with your projects.

            Saionji no Hanae
            West Kingdom
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