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Re: [SCA-JML] Hats?

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  • JL Badgley
    ... Mushi-no-tareginu is actually the part that hangs down from the hat, which is an ichimegasa (I read that as market woman hat --probably just from the
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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      On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
      >
      > I was looking at the "mushi-no tareginu" or the "obuto-no zori" or something like the "nuri-gasa", preferably.  I tend to burn easily and was looking for something that would be both acceptibly authentic and shade me from the Atenveldt sun.
      >
      Mushi-no-tareginu is actually the part that hangs down from the hat,
      which is an "ichimegasa" (I read that as "market woman hat"--probably
      just from the idea that it is for going out and about). FYI, you also
      see this hat and bug-screen (mushi-no-tareginu is basically the
      "hanging cloth for bugs") in Chinese Tang period examples, so I would
      assume its use goes back further than Kamakura period.

      There was a link on the group website to a place where you can find
      similar hats. The screen you would likely need to make yourself, but
      it isn't that difficult.

      Nurigasa I can only picture on women in a ritual or religious
      function, though that isn't to say they can't be found elsewhere. I'd
      want to find the evidence before I wore it, but it does appear to be
      the most simplistic of the hats (the typical conical straw hat, often
      seen on peasants, but lacquered instead of plain--hence the "nuri").

      I'm not sure what you mean by the obuto-no-zori. Can you point out
      the picture you are looking at?


      -Ii
    • Dean Wayland
      Hi Melissa, Like you, several of our group, including me, tend to fry under a strong sun, so we sourced some appropriate broad brimmed head gear. The following
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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        Hi Melissa,

        Like you, several of our group, including me, tend to fry under a strong
        sun, so we sourced some appropriate broad brimmed head gear.

        The following festival supplies company in Japan carry a range of hats,
        but some have plastic "bones". We've had several, of which the Takuhatsu
        was the best. The hats themselves are expensive, but their flat atamadai
        (liners) are cheap, which go well with our alternative (read on).

        http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5-s.htm

        A U.S. company carries the following inexpensive Chinese made bamboo
        hats, which come with an elastic chin strap. We bought ten of these a
        while back as they are entirely made of bamboo, then we removed the
        elastic and installed the flat style "atamadai" bought in from
        shop-japan (shown on the above page). We then added hemp ties. At some
        point we're going to try and get a load of straw string, like that used
        on waraji (sandals) for our next batch.

        http://asianideas.com/peasanthat.html

        These hats work extremely well, providing shade, protection from rain
        and ventilation, as they do not sit directly upon the scalp. For extra
        comfort and sweat absorption most of us wear a hachimaki (head cloth).

        They do other hats but the above is the best. But FYI here's their hat
        page:

        http://asianideas.com/bamboohats.html

        Incidentally to the ashigaru out there, we tried something like the
        following hat to fulfil the requirement for a "folding sedge" hat. It
        works okay, but the conical bamboo ones are definitely nicer. Not sure
        what the asiaideas version is actually like:

        http://asianideas.com/rifisthat.html

        Anyway, hope this is of some help.

        Yours

        Dean
        __
        In message
        <7b4179080903010028g71bb1d06j56f3be4518ff592c@...>, JL
        Badgley <tatsushu@...> writes
        >
        >On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Melissa Russell <virusq@...>
        >wrote:
        >>
        >> I was looking at the "mushi-no tareginu" or the "obuto-no zori" or
        >something like the "nuri-gasa", preferably.  I tend to burn easily and was
        >looking for something that would be both acceptibly authentic and shade
        >me from the Atenveldt sun.
        >>
        >Mushi-no-tareginu is actually the part that hangs down from the hat,
        >which is an "ichimegasa" (I read that as "market woman hat"--probably
        >just from the idea that it is for going out and about). FYI, you also
        >see this hat and bug-screen (mushi-no-tareginu is basically the
        >"hanging cloth for bugs") in Chinese Tang period examples, so I would
        >assume its use goes back further than Kamakura period.
        >
        >There was a link on the group website to a place where you can find
        >similar hats. The screen you would likely need to make yourself, but
        >it isn't that difficult.
        >
        >Nurigasa I can only picture on women in a ritual or religious
        >function, though that isn't to say they can't be found elsewhere. I'd
        >want to find the evidence before I wore it, but it does appear to be
        >the most simplistic of the hats (the typical conical straw hat, often
        >seen on peasants, but lacquered instead of plain--hence the "nuri").
        >
        >I'm not sure what you mean by the obuto-no-zori. Can you point out
        >the picture you are looking at?
        >
        >-Ii
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Dean Wayland
        Head Of The Fight School
        http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
      • wodeford
        Another option to the mushi no tareginu look is the katsugi: From Genre Scenes of the Twelve Months , late 16th century, Tokyo National Museum:
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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          Another option to the mushi no tareginu look is the katsugi:

          From "Genre Scenes of the Twelve Months", late 16th century, Tokyo
          National Museum:
          http://www.tnm.go.jp/gallery/search/images/max/C0022477.jpg

          It's simply a kosode draped over your head. It can be worn alone or
          you can plop a hat on top of it. (Worn alone looks quaint and period,
          but you'll have to keep a hand available to hold it on your head,
          particularly if the fabric is at all slippery.)
          http://flickr.com/photos/70104978@N00/3319999070/

          I'm going to second
          http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm for either the
          ichime-gasa or tsumaore-gasa
          However, I know the price and shipping is a bit on the high side.

          There's also a hardware store in downtown San Francisco that carries a
          hat of the sando-gasa/tsumaore-gasa style for about $30.00. You could
          contact them and see if they'd be willing to sell and ship long distance:

          Soko Hardware,
          1698 Post Street
          San Francisco, CA 94115
          (415) 931-5510

          Good hunting,
          Saionji no Hanae
          West Kingdom
        • Melissa Russell
          My apologies, I had originally included the links to each specific image I was referring to, but yahoogroups appears to have devoured the attached HTML. I
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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            My apologies, I had originally included the links to each specific image I was referring to, but yahoogroups appears to have devoured the attached HTML. I should have considered that ahead of time.

            The "mushi-no tareginu" image that I was referring to was from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/7.htm . The panel describes the outfit as a traveling outfit and the hat being a "hemp veiled sedge hat." I appear to have missed the part stating that the actual hat is referred to as a "ichime-gasa-no koji," which makes slightly more sense considering most of these hats end in "gasa," which I'm assuming means "hat."

            The "obuto-no zori" I referenced was from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/10.htm . I meant the large straw hat, but it appears that the numerical designations are off for the image. I'm starting to believe that an "obuto-no zori" is a pair of straw sandals and that I meant to reference the "ichime-gasa," which is also numerically designated as what appears to be a pouch around her neck.

            Would it be correct to assume that the "ichime-gasa" is the wide-brimmed straw hat and the "no-koji" designation is something akin to "with veil"?

            The "nuri-gasa" was referenced from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/34.htm . I had noticed that it was being worn by a shinto priest, but I did not know if it would be limited to that specific class. I will admit that I am drawn to it because it appears to be lacqured black, but would there be unadorned versions of this hat as well? This is the only reference I have found to this particular conical style.

            The Kyoto Costume Museum site also lists an "ajiro-gasa" as being available in the Edo Period: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/25.htm . Would this style of hat be limited to monks of later periods or would it have been seen earlier?

            The hats available through Shop Japan look fantastic, but I'm afraid they're a tad outside my current budget, so I ran a Google search on "Japanese Straw Hats" and found Asian Ideas and the Oriental Trading Company (bleh). Both of them had what appears to be a simple straw conical hat: http://asianideas.com/peasanthat.html but, not being able to pick it up and examine it in person, it reminds me of the cheap hats that are available at oriental themed events like anime conventions. I think the "rice field straw hat" available through Asian Ideas looks slightly higher quality: http://asianideas.com/rifisthat.html , but the black cord makes it look funky. Dean says that the first hat is definitely nicer, though -- any opinions on either hat?

            Also, the Kosode "veil" looks awesome and I'll have to try it, but I'm afraid it wouldn't do much to keep the sun off my face.








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          • Dean Wayland
            Hi Melissa, If you go to the following page and scroll down a wee bit, there s a photograph of a few of us at a public show, wherein the guy at the left is
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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              Hi Melissa,

              If you go to the following page and scroll down a wee bit, there's a
              photograph of a few of us at a public show, wherein the guy at the left
              is wearing the "Peasant Hat" from asianideas, with a flat atamadai from
              shop-japan, tied on with a piece of kumihimo made by his wife Tracie.

              http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk/SHOGUN.htm

              And yes I utterly agree the prices at shop-japan for their kasa are a
              bit steep for regular use, which is why we went for the ones from
              asianideas.

              FYI The word "gasa" is the suffix version of "kasa", which covers any
              kind of broad protective device, including umbrellas as well as various
              kinds of hat. The "k" goes to a "g" when it is used as a suffix, as in
              "katana" and "uchi-gatana".

              All the best

              Dean
              __

              In message <BAY140-W23E63947E0AC2F8E98EA2CD5A90@...>, Melissa
              Russell <virusq@...> writes
              >
              >
              >My apologies, I had originally included the links to each specific image I
              >was referring to, but yahoogroups appears to have devoured the attached
              >HTML. I should have considered that ahead of time.
              >
              >The "mushi-no tareginu" image that I was referring to was from this link:
              >http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/7.htm . The panel describes
              >the outfit as a traveling outfit and the hat being a "hemp veiled sedge hat."
              >I appear to have missed the part stating that the actual hat is referred to
              >as a "ichime-gasa-no koji," which makes slightly more sense considering
              >most of these hats end in "gasa," which I'm assuming means "hat."
              >
              >The "obuto-no zori" I referenced was from this link: http://www.iz2
              >or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/10.htm . I meant the large straw hat, but it
              >appears that the numerical designations are off for the image. I'm starting
              >to believe that an "obuto-no zori" is a pair of straw sandals and that I
              >meant to reference the "ichime-gasa," which is also numerically
              >designated as what appears to be a pouch around her neck.
              >
              >Would it be correct to assume that the "ichime-gasa" is the wide-brimmed
              >straw hat and the "no-koji" designation is something akin to "with veil"?
              >
              >The "nuri-gasa" was referenced from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/
              >fukusyoku/busou/34.htm . I had noticed that it was being worn by a shinto
              >priest, but I did not know if it would be limited to that specific class. I will
              >admit that I am drawn to it because it appears to be lacqured black, but
              >would there be unadorned versions of this hat as well? This is the only
              >reference I have found to this particular conical style.
              >
              >The Kyoto Costume Museum site also lists an "ajiro-gasa" as being
              >available in the Edo Period: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/
              >kosode/25.htm . Would this style of hat be limited to monks of later
              >periods or would it have been seen earlier?
              >
              >The hats available through Shop Japan look fantastic, but I'm afraid they're
              >a tad outside my current budget, so I ran a Google search on "Japanese
              >Straw Hats" and found Asian Ideas and the Oriental Trading Company
              >(bleh). Both of them had what appears to be a simple straw conical hat:
              >http://asianideas.com/peasanthat.html but, not being able to pick it up and
              >examine it in person, it reminds me of the cheap hats that are available at
              >oriental themed events like anime conventions. I think the "rice field straw
              >hat" available through Asian Ideas looks slightly higher quality:
              >http://asianideas.com/rifisthat.html , but the black cord makes it look
              >funky. Dean says that the first hat is definitely nicer, though -- any
              >opinions on either hat?
              >
              >Also, the Kosode "veil" looks awesome and I'll have to try it, but I'm afraid
              >it wouldn't do much to keep the sun off my face.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >__________________________________________________________
              >Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
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              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Dean Wayland
              Head Of The Fight School
              http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
            • wodeford
              ... opinions on either hat? Personally, ick, and ick. They re not what a lady would wear. Even the nuns are wearing ichime-gasa in the Ippen Shonen picture
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
                > Dean says that the first hat is definitely nicer, though -- any
                opinions on either hat?

                Personally, ick, and ick. They're not what a lady would wear. Even the
                nuns are wearing ichime-gasa in the Ippen Shonen picture scroll. If
                you're a rice pickin' peasant, that's another thing entirely.

                > Also, the Kosode "veil" looks awesome and I'll have to try it, but
                I'm afraid it wouldn't do much to keep the sun off my face.

                You'd be surprised. I've sat comfortably through long outdoor courts
                under my kosde.

                Do try contacting Soko Hardware in San Francisco. They may be able to
                help you.

                Saionji no Hanae
                West Kingdom
              • wodeford
                How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like this? http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg I ve been thinking we have this problem
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                  How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like
                  this?

                  http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg

                  I've been thinking we have this problem every time someone wants a
                  darn hat but is unwilling or unable to pay what Bokunan-do charges for
                  theirs.

                  I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on
                  the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic
                  expectations as to what it's going to cost them.

                  Your thoughts?

                  Saionji no Hanae
                  West Kingdom
                • Melissa Russell
                  I have seen them for $60, $90 and $230 online. I would be willing to pay $20-40, depending on quality and shipping costs. I would really like to know how to
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                    I have seen them for $60, $90 and $230 online. I would be willing to pay $20-40, depending on quality and shipping costs.

                    I would really like to know how to make my own, though. *Is currently eying up the dying fan in the corner with a lovely removable sando-gasa shaped blade-cage.*

                    -Dayone
                    Atenveldt







                    How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like

                    this?



                    http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg



                    I've been thinking we have this problem every time someone wants a

                    darn hat but is unwilling or unable to pay what Bokunan-do charges for

                    theirs.



                    I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on

                    the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic

                    expectations as to what it's going to cost them.



                    Your thoughts?



                    Saionji no Hanae

                    West Kingdom







                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Windows Live� Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet.
                    http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009

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                  • Jennifer Kobayashi
                    ... As a rough figure I would be willing to pay $60 to $65... Ki no Izumi
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                      --- On Mon, 3/2/09, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
                      > How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like
                      > this?

                      As a rough figure I would be willing to pay $60 to $65...

                      Ki no Izumi
                    • charmed3x3@yahoo.com
                      I agree I would be willing to pay 60 for one Or make one if someone had. The knowledge )Umi Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Jennifer
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                        I agree I would be willing to pay 60 for one
                        Or make one if someone had. The knowledge
                        )Umi
                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Jennifer Kobayashi <jhkob@...>

                        Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:39:56
                        To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Hats?




                        --- On Mon, 3/2/09, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
                        > How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like
                        > this?

                        As a rough figure I would be willing to pay $60 to $65...

                        Ki no Izumi




































                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • wodeford
                        ... Clearly, a feasibility study is needed, particularly on what shipping costs are going to look like. I will report back to the list if I can come up with
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "wodeford" <wodeford@...> wrote:
                          > I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on
                          > the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic
                          > expectations as to what it's going to cost them.

                          Clearly, a feasibility study is needed, particularly on what shipping
                          costs are going to look like.

                          I will report back to the list if I can come up with something workable.

                          Saionji no Hanae
                          West Kingdom
                        • Jeanel Walker
                          Hopkins boulevard you know the one that sells everything wood in the way of furniture they have them ...two styles both very very nice and very affordable
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 3, 2009
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                            Hopkins boulevard you know the one that sells everything wood in the way of furniture they have them ...two styles both very very nice and very affordable either 10 or 20 for the smaller version or mans as I call it witch is about 1 1\2 in dia.  or 45 for the one you see the women wear with the scarves but its just the hat that is about 2 feet in dia....both are double line with the bamboo. you wont believe how much cooler it is underneath the hat
                            I looked at there site and they dont have it on there but they do in the store...so call them
                            http://www.hopkinsblvd.com/accessories.htm

                            228-214-0272

                            May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                            Jeanel Walker aka Eilionoria "Takinaga" Kisimull
                            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                            --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
                            From: Melissa Russell <virusq@...>
                            Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Hats?
                            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 2:20 PM

                            I have seen them for $60, $90 and $230 online. I would be willing to pay
                            $20-40, depending on quality and shipping costs.

                            I would really like to know how to make my own, though. *Is currently eying up
                            the dying fan in the corner with a lovely removable sando-gasa shaped
                            blade-cage.*

                            -Dayone
                            Atenveldt







                            How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks
                            like

                            this?



                            http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg



                            I've been thinking we have this problem every time someone wants a

                            darn hat but is unwilling or unable to pay what Bokunan-do charges for

                            theirs.



                            I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on

                            the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic

                            expectations as to what it's going to cost them.



                            Your thoughts?



                            Saionji no Hanae

                            West Kingdom







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                          • Melissa Russell
                            The Yamatoku: Vintage Kimono (http://www.yamatoku.jp/) website says that they have a set of two sando-gasas available for $90 with $16.8 shipping to the US.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 4, 2009
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                              The Yamatoku: Vintage Kimono (http://www.yamatoku.jp/) website says that they have a set of two sando-gasas available for $90 with $16.8 shipping to the US. (http://www.yamatoku.jp/classic/description.asp?tno=80725442)

                              Has anyone purchased anything through them?

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                            • wodeford
                              ... I have purchased some vintage kimono items from Yamatoku via eBay. They are reputable, scrupulous about providing detailed photos of their vintage items
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 4, 2009
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                                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
                                > Has anyone purchased anything through them?

                                I have purchased some vintage kimono items from Yamatoku via eBay. They are reputable, scrupulous about providing detailed photos of their vintage items for sale, and provide prompt, efficient customer service.

                                Saionji no Hanae
                                West Kingdom
                              • Cherise
                                Yamatoku is very reputable. They aren t my #1 seller, since their selection isn t always to my tastes, but I ve always been very satisfied with the
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 5, 2009
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                                  Yamatoku is very reputable. They aren't my #1 seller, since their selection
                                  isn't always to my tastes, but I've always been very satisfied with the
                                  transactions I've done with them. I usually use their Ebay account, and I
                                  wouldn't hesitate to rank them in the top 10 of Ebay's best kimono
                                  merchants. (Japanese.Antiques and RyuJapan-99 are still my favorites,
                                  though.)


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