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Hats?

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  • Melissa R.
    Does anyone have any recommendations for books or websites regarding headwear appropriate for a Japanese persona in the Kamakura or Momoyama periods? The Kyoto
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 28, 2009
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      Does anyone have any recommendations for books or websites regarding
      headwear appropriate for a Japanese persona in the Kamakura or
      Momoyama periods?

      The Kyoto Costume Museum website has slides depicting a few different
      kinds of sun-shade like hats, but I can't seem to find any information
      on any of the articles presented. How big are they? How are the
      constructed? When were they appropriate to wear/remove?

      Thank you,

      Dayone
    • JL Badgley
      ... I don t know about anything in English, but if you point out specific examples you are interested in, we can probably help. -Ii
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 28, 2009
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        On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Melissa R. <virusq@...> wrote:
        > Does anyone have any recommendations for books or websites regarding
        > headwear appropriate for a Japanese persona in the Kamakura or
        > Momoyama periods?
        >
        > The Kyoto Costume Museum website has slides depicting a few different
        > kinds of sun-shade like hats, but I can't seem to find any information
        > on any of the articles presented.  How big are they?  How are the
        > constructed?  When were they appropriate to wear/remove?

        I don't know about anything in English, but if you point out specific
        examples you are interested in, we can probably help.

        -Ii
      • Melissa Russell
        I was looking at the mushi-no tareginu or the obuto-no zori or something like the nuri-gasa , preferably. I tend to burn easily and was looking for
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 28, 2009
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          I was looking at the "mushi-no tareginu" or the "obuto-no zori" or something like the "nuri-gasa", preferably. I tend to burn easily and was looking for something that would be both acceptibly authentic and shade me from the Atenveldt sun.

          -Dayone






          I don't know about anything in English, but if you point out specific

          examples you are interested in, we can probably help.



          -Ii







          _________________________________________________________________
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        • JL Badgley
          ... Mushi-no-tareginu is actually the part that hangs down from the hat, which is an ichimegasa (I read that as market woman hat --probably just from the
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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            On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
            >
            > I was looking at the "mushi-no tareginu" or the "obuto-no zori" or something like the "nuri-gasa", preferably.  I tend to burn easily and was looking for something that would be both acceptibly authentic and shade me from the Atenveldt sun.
            >
            Mushi-no-tareginu is actually the part that hangs down from the hat,
            which is an "ichimegasa" (I read that as "market woman hat"--probably
            just from the idea that it is for going out and about). FYI, you also
            see this hat and bug-screen (mushi-no-tareginu is basically the
            "hanging cloth for bugs") in Chinese Tang period examples, so I would
            assume its use goes back further than Kamakura period.

            There was a link on the group website to a place where you can find
            similar hats. The screen you would likely need to make yourself, but
            it isn't that difficult.

            Nurigasa I can only picture on women in a ritual or religious
            function, though that isn't to say they can't be found elsewhere. I'd
            want to find the evidence before I wore it, but it does appear to be
            the most simplistic of the hats (the typical conical straw hat, often
            seen on peasants, but lacquered instead of plain--hence the "nuri").

            I'm not sure what you mean by the obuto-no-zori. Can you point out
            the picture you are looking at?


            -Ii
          • Dean Wayland
            Hi Melissa, Like you, several of our group, including me, tend to fry under a strong sun, so we sourced some appropriate broad brimmed head gear. The following
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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              Hi Melissa,

              Like you, several of our group, including me, tend to fry under a strong
              sun, so we sourced some appropriate broad brimmed head gear.

              The following festival supplies company in Japan carry a range of hats,
              but some have plastic "bones". We've had several, of which the Takuhatsu
              was the best. The hats themselves are expensive, but their flat atamadai
              (liners) are cheap, which go well with our alternative (read on).

              http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5-s.htm

              A U.S. company carries the following inexpensive Chinese made bamboo
              hats, which come with an elastic chin strap. We bought ten of these a
              while back as they are entirely made of bamboo, then we removed the
              elastic and installed the flat style "atamadai" bought in from
              shop-japan (shown on the above page). We then added hemp ties. At some
              point we're going to try and get a load of straw string, like that used
              on waraji (sandals) for our next batch.

              http://asianideas.com/peasanthat.html

              These hats work extremely well, providing shade, protection from rain
              and ventilation, as they do not sit directly upon the scalp. For extra
              comfort and sweat absorption most of us wear a hachimaki (head cloth).

              They do other hats but the above is the best. But FYI here's their hat
              page:

              http://asianideas.com/bamboohats.html

              Incidentally to the ashigaru out there, we tried something like the
              following hat to fulfil the requirement for a "folding sedge" hat. It
              works okay, but the conical bamboo ones are definitely nicer. Not sure
              what the asiaideas version is actually like:

              http://asianideas.com/rifisthat.html

              Anyway, hope this is of some help.

              Yours

              Dean
              __
              In message
              <7b4179080903010028g71bb1d06j56f3be4518ff592c@...>, JL
              Badgley <tatsushu@...> writes
              >
              >On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Melissa Russell <virusq@...>
              >wrote:
              >>
              >> I was looking at the "mushi-no tareginu" or the "obuto-no zori" or
              >something like the "nuri-gasa", preferably.  I tend to burn easily and was
              >looking for something that would be both acceptibly authentic and shade
              >me from the Atenveldt sun.
              >>
              >Mushi-no-tareginu is actually the part that hangs down from the hat,
              >which is an "ichimegasa" (I read that as "market woman hat"--probably
              >just from the idea that it is for going out and about). FYI, you also
              >see this hat and bug-screen (mushi-no-tareginu is basically the
              >"hanging cloth for bugs") in Chinese Tang period examples, so I would
              >assume its use goes back further than Kamakura period.
              >
              >There was a link on the group website to a place where you can find
              >similar hats. The screen you would likely need to make yourself, but
              >it isn't that difficult.
              >
              >Nurigasa I can only picture on women in a ritual or religious
              >function, though that isn't to say they can't be found elsewhere. I'd
              >want to find the evidence before I wore it, but it does appear to be
              >the most simplistic of the hats (the typical conical straw hat, often
              >seen on peasants, but lacquered instead of plain--hence the "nuri").
              >
              >I'm not sure what you mean by the obuto-no-zori. Can you point out
              >the picture you are looking at?
              >
              >-Ii
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Dean Wayland
              Head Of The Fight School
              http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
            • wodeford
              Another option to the mushi no tareginu look is the katsugi: From Genre Scenes of the Twelve Months , late 16th century, Tokyo National Museum:
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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                Another option to the mushi no tareginu look is the katsugi:

                From "Genre Scenes of the Twelve Months", late 16th century, Tokyo
                National Museum:
                http://www.tnm.go.jp/gallery/search/images/max/C0022477.jpg

                It's simply a kosode draped over your head. It can be worn alone or
                you can plop a hat on top of it. (Worn alone looks quaint and period,
                but you'll have to keep a hand available to hold it on your head,
                particularly if the fabric is at all slippery.)
                http://flickr.com/photos/70104978@N00/3319999070/

                I'm going to second
                http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm for either the
                ichime-gasa or tsumaore-gasa
                However, I know the price and shipping is a bit on the high side.

                There's also a hardware store in downtown San Francisco that carries a
                hat of the sando-gasa/tsumaore-gasa style for about $30.00. You could
                contact them and see if they'd be willing to sell and ship long distance:

                Soko Hardware,
                1698 Post Street
                San Francisco, CA 94115
                (415) 931-5510

                Good hunting,
                Saionji no Hanae
                West Kingdom
              • Melissa Russell
                My apologies, I had originally included the links to each specific image I was referring to, but yahoogroups appears to have devoured the attached HTML. I
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                  My apologies, I had originally included the links to each specific image I was referring to, but yahoogroups appears to have devoured the attached HTML. I should have considered that ahead of time.

                  The "mushi-no tareginu" image that I was referring to was from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/7.htm . The panel describes the outfit as a traveling outfit and the hat being a "hemp veiled sedge hat." I appear to have missed the part stating that the actual hat is referred to as a "ichime-gasa-no koji," which makes slightly more sense considering most of these hats end in "gasa," which I'm assuming means "hat."

                  The "obuto-no zori" I referenced was from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/10.htm . I meant the large straw hat, but it appears that the numerical designations are off for the image. I'm starting to believe that an "obuto-no zori" is a pair of straw sandals and that I meant to reference the "ichime-gasa," which is also numerically designated as what appears to be a pouch around her neck.

                  Would it be correct to assume that the "ichime-gasa" is the wide-brimmed straw hat and the "no-koji" designation is something akin to "with veil"?

                  The "nuri-gasa" was referenced from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/34.htm . I had noticed that it was being worn by a shinto priest, but I did not know if it would be limited to that specific class. I will admit that I am drawn to it because it appears to be lacqured black, but would there be unadorned versions of this hat as well? This is the only reference I have found to this particular conical style.

                  The Kyoto Costume Museum site also lists an "ajiro-gasa" as being available in the Edo Period: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/kosode/25.htm . Would this style of hat be limited to monks of later periods or would it have been seen earlier?

                  The hats available through Shop Japan look fantastic, but I'm afraid they're a tad outside my current budget, so I ran a Google search on "Japanese Straw Hats" and found Asian Ideas and the Oriental Trading Company (bleh). Both of them had what appears to be a simple straw conical hat: http://asianideas.com/peasanthat.html but, not being able to pick it up and examine it in person, it reminds me of the cheap hats that are available at oriental themed events like anime conventions. I think the "rice field straw hat" available through Asian Ideas looks slightly higher quality: http://asianideas.com/rifisthat.html , but the black cord makes it look funky. Dean says that the first hat is definitely nicer, though -- any opinions on either hat?

                  Also, the Kosode "veil" looks awesome and I'll have to try it, but I'm afraid it wouldn't do much to keep the sun off my face.








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                • Dean Wayland
                  Hi Melissa, If you go to the following page and scroll down a wee bit, there s a photograph of a few of us at a public show, wherein the guy at the left is
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                    Hi Melissa,

                    If you go to the following page and scroll down a wee bit, there's a
                    photograph of a few of us at a public show, wherein the guy at the left
                    is wearing the "Peasant Hat" from asianideas, with a flat atamadai from
                    shop-japan, tied on with a piece of kumihimo made by his wife Tracie.

                    http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk/SHOGUN.htm

                    And yes I utterly agree the prices at shop-japan for their kasa are a
                    bit steep for regular use, which is why we went for the ones from
                    asianideas.

                    FYI The word "gasa" is the suffix version of "kasa", which covers any
                    kind of broad protective device, including umbrellas as well as various
                    kinds of hat. The "k" goes to a "g" when it is used as a suffix, as in
                    "katana" and "uchi-gatana".

                    All the best

                    Dean
                    __

                    In message <BAY140-W23E63947E0AC2F8E98EA2CD5A90@...>, Melissa
                    Russell <virusq@...> writes
                    >
                    >
                    >My apologies, I had originally included the links to each specific image I
                    >was referring to, but yahoogroups appears to have devoured the attached
                    >HTML. I should have considered that ahead of time.
                    >
                    >The "mushi-no tareginu" image that I was referring to was from this link:
                    >http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/7.htm . The panel describes
                    >the outfit as a traveling outfit and the hat being a "hemp veiled sedge hat."
                    >I appear to have missed the part stating that the actual hat is referred to
                    >as a "ichime-gasa-no koji," which makes slightly more sense considering
                    >most of these hats end in "gasa," which I'm assuming means "hat."
                    >
                    >The "obuto-no zori" I referenced was from this link: http://www.iz2
                    >or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/10.htm . I meant the large straw hat, but it
                    >appears that the numerical designations are off for the image. I'm starting
                    >to believe that an "obuto-no zori" is a pair of straw sandals and that I
                    >meant to reference the "ichime-gasa," which is also numerically
                    >designated as what appears to be a pouch around her neck.
                    >
                    >Would it be correct to assume that the "ichime-gasa" is the wide-brimmed
                    >straw hat and the "no-koji" designation is something akin to "with veil"?
                    >
                    >The "nuri-gasa" was referenced from this link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/
                    >fukusyoku/busou/34.htm . I had noticed that it was being worn by a shinto
                    >priest, but I did not know if it would be limited to that specific class. I will
                    >admit that I am drawn to it because it appears to be lacqured black, but
                    >would there be unadorned versions of this hat as well? This is the only
                    >reference I have found to this particular conical style.
                    >
                    >The Kyoto Costume Museum site also lists an "ajiro-gasa" as being
                    >available in the Edo Period: http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/
                    >kosode/25.htm . Would this style of hat be limited to monks of later
                    >periods or would it have been seen earlier?
                    >
                    >The hats available through Shop Japan look fantastic, but I'm afraid they're
                    >a tad outside my current budget, so I ran a Google search on "Japanese
                    >Straw Hats" and found Asian Ideas and the Oriental Trading Company
                    >(bleh). Both of them had what appears to be a simple straw conical hat:
                    >http://asianideas.com/peasanthat.html but, not being able to pick it up and
                    >examine it in person, it reminds me of the cheap hats that are available at
                    >oriental themed events like anime conventions. I think the "rice field straw
                    >hat" available through Asian Ideas looks slightly higher quality:
                    >http://asianideas.com/rifisthat.html , but the black cord makes it look
                    >funky. Dean says that the first hat is definitely nicer, though -- any
                    >opinions on either hat?
                    >
                    >Also, the Kosode "veil" looks awesome and I'll have to try it, but I'm afraid
                    >it wouldn't do much to keep the sun off my face.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >__________________________________________________________
                    >Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
                    >http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_
                    >WL_HM_70faster_032009
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Dean Wayland
                    Head Of The Fight School
                    http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
                  • wodeford
                    ... opinions on either hat? Personally, ick, and ick. They re not what a lady would wear. Even the nuns are wearing ichime-gasa in the Ippen Shonen picture
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
                      > Dean says that the first hat is definitely nicer, though -- any
                      opinions on either hat?

                      Personally, ick, and ick. They're not what a lady would wear. Even the
                      nuns are wearing ichime-gasa in the Ippen Shonen picture scroll. If
                      you're a rice pickin' peasant, that's another thing entirely.

                      > Also, the Kosode "veil" looks awesome and I'll have to try it, but
                      I'm afraid it wouldn't do much to keep the sun off my face.

                      You'd be surprised. I've sat comfortably through long outdoor courts
                      under my kosde.

                      Do try contacting Soko Hardware in San Francisco. They may be able to
                      help you.

                      Saionji no Hanae
                      West Kingdom
                    • wodeford
                      How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like this? http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg I ve been thinking we have this problem
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                        How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like
                        this?

                        http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg

                        I've been thinking we have this problem every time someone wants a
                        darn hat but is unwilling or unable to pay what Bokunan-do charges for
                        theirs.

                        I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on
                        the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic
                        expectations as to what it's going to cost them.

                        Your thoughts?

                        Saionji no Hanae
                        West Kingdom
                      • Melissa Russell
                        I have seen them for $60, $90 and $230 online. I would be willing to pay $20-40, depending on quality and shipping costs. I would really like to know how to
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                          I have seen them for $60, $90 and $230 online. I would be willing to pay $20-40, depending on quality and shipping costs.

                          I would really like to know how to make my own, though. *Is currently eying up the dying fan in the corner with a lovely removable sando-gasa shaped blade-cage.*

                          -Dayone
                          Atenveldt







                          How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like

                          this?



                          http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg



                          I've been thinking we have this problem every time someone wants a

                          darn hat but is unwilling or unable to pay what Bokunan-do charges for

                          theirs.



                          I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on

                          the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic

                          expectations as to what it's going to cost them.



                          Your thoughts?



                          Saionji no Hanae

                          West Kingdom







                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Windows Live� Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet.
                          http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jennifer Kobayashi
                          ... As a rough figure I would be willing to pay $60 to $65... Ki no Izumi
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                            --- On Mon, 3/2/09, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
                            > How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like
                            > this?

                            As a rough figure I would be willing to pay $60 to $65...

                            Ki no Izumi
                          • charmed3x3@yahoo.com
                            I agree I would be willing to pay 60 for one Or make one if someone had. The knowledge )Umi Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Jennifer
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                              I agree I would be willing to pay 60 for one
                              Or make one if someone had. The knowledge
                              )Umi
                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jennifer Kobayashi <jhkob@...>

                              Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:39:56
                              To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Hats?




                              --- On Mon, 3/2/09, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
                              > How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks like
                              > this?

                              As a rough figure I would be willing to pay $60 to $65...

                              Ki no Izumi




































                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • wodeford
                              ... Clearly, a feasibility study is needed, particularly on what shipping costs are going to look like. I will report back to the list if I can come up with
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 2, 2009
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                                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "wodeford" <wodeford@...> wrote:
                                > I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on
                                > the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic
                                > expectations as to what it's going to cost them.

                                Clearly, a feasibility study is needed, particularly on what shipping
                                costs are going to look like.

                                I will report back to the list if I can come up with something workable.

                                Saionji no Hanae
                                West Kingdom
                              • Jeanel Walker
                                Hopkins boulevard you know the one that sells everything wood in the way of furniture they have them ...two styles both very very nice and very affordable
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 3, 2009
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                                  Hopkins boulevard you know the one that sells everything wood in the way of furniture they have them ...two styles both very very nice and very affordable either 10 or 20 for the smaller version or mans as I call it witch is about 1 1\2 in dia.  or 45 for the one you see the women wear with the scarves but its just the hat that is about 2 feet in dia....both are double line with the bamboo. you wont believe how much cooler it is underneath the hat
                                  I looked at there site and they dont have it on there but they do in the store...so call them
                                  http://www.hopkinsblvd.com/accessories.htm

                                  228-214-0272

                                  May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                                  Jeanel Walker aka Eilionoria "Takinaga" Kisimull
                                  http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                                  http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                                  --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
                                  From: Melissa Russell <virusq@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Hats?
                                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 2:20 PM

                                  I have seen them for $60, $90 and $230 online. I would be willing to pay
                                  $20-40, depending on quality and shipping costs.

                                  I would really like to know how to make my own, though. *Is currently eying up
                                  the dying fan in the corner with a lovely removable sando-gasa shaped
                                  blade-cage.*

                                  -Dayone
                                  Atenveldt







                                  How much would you be willing to pay for a sando-gasa that looks
                                  like

                                  this?



                                  http://www.yamatoku.jp/img/80725435g.jpg



                                  I've been thinking we have this problem every time someone wants a

                                  darn hat but is unwilling or unable to pay what Bokunan-do charges for

                                  theirs.



                                  I have an idea for a solution, but I am not going to throw myself on

                                  the grenade unless I know people are interested AND have realistic

                                  expectations as to what it's going to cost them.



                                  Your thoughts?



                                  Saionji no Hanae

                                  West Kingdom







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                                • Melissa Russell
                                  The Yamatoku: Vintage Kimono (http://www.yamatoku.jp/) website says that they have a set of two sando-gasas available for $90 with $16.8 shipping to the US.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 4, 2009
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                                    The Yamatoku: Vintage Kimono (http://www.yamatoku.jp/) website says that they have a set of two sando-gasas available for $90 with $16.8 shipping to the US. (http://www.yamatoku.jp/classic/description.asp?tno=80725442)

                                    Has anyone purchased anything through them?

                                    _________________________________________________________________
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                                  • wodeford
                                    ... I have purchased some vintage kimono items from Yamatoku via eBay. They are reputable, scrupulous about providing detailed photos of their vintage items
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 4, 2009
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                                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Russell <virusq@...> wrote:
                                      > Has anyone purchased anything through them?

                                      I have purchased some vintage kimono items from Yamatoku via eBay. They are reputable, scrupulous about providing detailed photos of their vintage items for sale, and provide prompt, efficient customer service.

                                      Saionji no Hanae
                                      West Kingdom
                                    • Cherise
                                      Yamatoku is very reputable. They aren t my #1 seller, since their selection isn t always to my tastes, but I ve always been very satisfied with the
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Mar 5, 2009
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                                        Yamatoku is very reputable. They aren't my #1 seller, since their selection
                                        isn't always to my tastes, but I've always been very satisfied with the
                                        transactions I've done with them. I usually use their Ebay account, and I
                                        wouldn't hesitate to rank them in the top 10 of Ebay's best kimono
                                        merchants. (Japanese.Antiques and RyuJapan-99 are still my favorites,
                                        though.)


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