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[SCA-JML] Re: new subject line- old one too tangled

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  • J. Kriss White
    At approximately 02/05/2000 02:08 PM -0700, Yumitori-san was rumored to ... when using the suffix -phile (same root ... perversion. ... hell would ... yucky.
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 5, 2000
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      At approximately 02/05/2000 02:08 PM -0700, Yumitori-san was rumored to have responded to:

      > translate to love.)  Currently, when using the suffix -phile (same root > word, I believe), we are referring to some sort of sexual perversion. > (Such as pedo- or necrophile.)  So, the question is, why the hell would > anyone want to name their kid "Phillip"?  Ooh, yucky. >                                                             Ogami Itto          I think you are generalizing too much. While Pedophilia and Necrophilia do have specific sexual connotations, other uses do not. For example, we are all Japophiles here, which simply means, in a nonsexual way, that we love Japan...
      Exactly, much as Anglophile means someone who loves all things English, audiophile means someone who loves sound (usually in connection with stereos, etc.) , Francophile means someone who loves all things French, etc.  Ogami-san needs to study his English a little more, in this case, and bring his mind back up into the gutter with the rest of us. :-)

      Livin' la vida meshuggah,
      Lord Daveed of Granada, mka J. Kriss White,
      Barony of Calafia, Kingdom of Caid
      email - jkrissw@...  ||  AOL IM - jkrissw  ||  ICQ #1824702
      (hobbies & interests web page: <http://members.aol.com/JkrissW/index.html>)
    • Kass McGann
      ... a ... Fujiwara-hime or ... I was given to understand (read it in a role playing book(!) by Anthony J. Bryant (that name sounds familiar for some
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 6, 2000
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        > Fujiwara-hime-gimi no-Aoi (I think I got that right), I apologize
        > about the Ogami-wake thing. I was thinking that -wake was associated
        > with the name given to children for some reason. Further reading has
        > enlightened me. I am certainly no peer. If I was, would I ask such
        > basic question?
        > >>>>
        > Ogami-dono, I too am not a Peer. But your mistake tonite has brought
        a
        > smile to my face nonetheless. I believe I should be called
        Fujiwara-hime or
        > Fujiwara-dono (and I am quite certain someone will correct me if I am
        > mistaken...)
        > >>>>
        I was given to understand (read it in a role playing book(!) by
        Anthony J. Bryant (that name sounds familiar for some reason...)) that
        -hime-gimi was a polite form of address used when addressing someone
        that was of noble birth. I was under the impression that in the SCA,
        we were all considered to be nobility of some sort unless otherwise
        specified. Would this form of address be correct when referring to
        someone of your own rank (assuming that both of you were nobility)?
        How did adressing people become altered when the person that you were
        speaking with was kuge and you were buke, or vice-versa? Was a member
        of the kuge always considered to be of a higher rank than a member of
        the buke?
        >>>>
        Well, we'll have to get Hiraizumi-wake's take on this. But in his CA, A
        Japanese Miscellany, he suggests that we use -hime-gimi for female Peers.
        Of course the Japanese forms of address don't work terribly well in the SCA
        context, but I just didn't want you to think I was a Peer when I am not. ;)
        >>>>
        I get the distinct impression that it was very easy to get in lots
        and lots of trouble by using the wrong form of address to someone who's
        rank you were unsure of. ("Off with her head!")
        >>>>
        Ain't that the truth...
        >>>>
        And on a completely unrelated topic...
        Mr. Bryant mentions in the same book ("Sengoku: Chanbara
        Roleplaying in Fuedal Japan") that _all_ japanese names mean something
        directly, and that the meaning is quite apparent, although it need not
        be factual. (I.e., "Fujiwara" means, literally, "wisteria plain", and
        apparently could be used as either a name, or to refer to a
        geographical area.) He then mentions that western names mean something
        as well, but that we are not often aware of the meaning (archaic
        language, etc.).
        >>>>
        Indeed. Fujiwara specifically refers to the wisteria bower in which
        Nakatomi Kamako and a seventh century Emperor laid the plans to put this
        Emperor back on the throne. When he was restored to power, he granted the
        name "Fujiwara" on Nakatomi's decendents as an Imperial gift of thanks.
        Nakatomi, incidentally, was buried in that same bower.
        >>>>
        BTW- It's nice that this board is finally getting cluttered up
        again, and I'm not the one asking all the questions. I can't thiink of
        any post that has not interested me, even though I didn't get the puns.
        >>>>
        Yay! I'm having a great time!

        Fujiwara no Aoi-hime
      • Kass McGann
        ... It really didn t; remember that titles were used. Anyone with a better position than you was treated and referred to with more deference. And kuge were
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 6, 2000
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          > How did adressing people become altered when the person that you were
          > speaking with was kuge and you were buke, or vice-versa? Was a member
          > of the kuge always considered to be of a higher rank than a member of
          > the buke?

          It really didn't; remember that titles were used. Anyone with a better
          position than you was treated and referred to with more deference. And kuge
          were generally held above the average buke, yes; but remember that buke of
          certain ranks were granted court titles making them defacto kuge as well,
          although they weren't born into the class. (Think of a guy whose won the
          lottery and buys a mansion in the Hamptons. Though he's now got the money
          and the power (the "title") he's not -- and never will be -- one of "them."
          >>>>
          Like that nouveau-riche Hideyoshi. Constructing a castle out of gold. How
          gauche!

          Your friendly neighbourhood Heian snot-nose,
          Aoi
        • Barbara Nostrand
          Noble Cousins! ... Thus an amusing scene in the amusing kyogen about back taxes. Two peasants meet each other in the woods during the dead of Winter and are
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 6, 2000
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            Noble Cousins!

            >> I get the distinct impression that it was very easy to get in lots
            >> and lots of trouble by using the wrong form of address to someone who's
            >> rank you were unsure of. ("Off with her head!")

            Thus an amusing scene in the amusing kyogen about back taxes. Two
            peasants meet each other in the woods during the dead of Winter
            and are immediately terrified of each other. They loosen up after
            they establish that they are BOTH peasants. (As I recall, the title
            of the kyogen is Sakuramochi. Play synopsis date to the 16th century
            with early texts dating to the early to mid 17th century.) When they
            finally show up with their back taxes, they are immediately forgiven
            because they had originally been detained by a blizzard. (Kyogen
            ethics forbids punishment for things that are not under your control
            or happened because you were ignorant.)

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

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          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... No overlap on the sides. Use a mono-spaced font or this ll look REALY weird. Think of a kataginu: if you lay the thing flat on the floor, open, you get ...
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 6, 2000
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              Ogami Itto wrote:

              > Master Edward- I _have_ seen both Ran and Kagemusha (loved 'em
              > both), but I was unable to tell if hitatare had open sides or not from
              > the film- I would assume that, despite the open sides, the panels
              > overlapped somewhat, concealing the opening.

              No overlap on the sides.

              Use a mono-spaced font or this'll look REALY weird.

              Think of a kataginu: if you lay the thing flat on the floor, open, you get
              this:


              -----------------
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              |---------------| <-- shoulder-fold
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              |__|| ||__|

              Fold it at the shoulder, you get this:
              ____________
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | || || |
              | ||----|| |
              ------ -------

              For a hitatare, you attach sleeves thus:
              __________________________
              : || || : ; |
              : || || : ; |
              : || || : ; |
              | || || | ; |
              | || || | ; |
              | || || | ; |
              | || || | ______ ;_____|
              | ||----|| |
              ------ -------


              > Finally, privately to Master Edward- I grow impatient, and must
              > plan finances. Can you relate progress to me privately? (I had sent
              > an e-mail, but the response has become mired in the system, apparently.)

              Answering in e-mail!

              >
              > In search of a kaishaga- any takers?

              Ermm..... what's a kaishaga?


              Effingham/Hiraizumi
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... Nobility in an RPG and nobility in the SCA are different things. We re all gentry in the SCA, but only titled people are nobles per se... ...
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 6, 2000
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                Ogami Itto wrote:

                > I was given to understand (read it in a role playing book(!) by
                > Anthony J. Bryant (that name sounds familiar for some reason...)) that
                > -hime-gimi was a polite form of address used when addressing someone
                > that was of noble birth.

                "Nobility" in an RPG and "nobility" in the SCA are different things. <G>

                We're all "gentry" in the SCA, but only titled people are "nobles" per
                se...

                > I was under the impression that in the SCA,
                > we were all considered to be nobility of some sort unless otherwise
                > specified. Would this form of address be correct when referring to
                > someone of your own rank (assuming that both of you were nobility)?

                Naninani-hime is appropriate for any armigerous lady.

                Naninani-hime-gimi is appropriate for lady peers.

                > How did adressing people become altered when the person that you were
                > speaking with was kuge and you were buke, or vice-versa? Was a member
                > of the kuge always considered to be of a higher rank than a member of
                > the buke?

                It really didn't; remember that titles were used. Anyone with a better
                position than you was treated and referred to with more deference. And kuge
                were generally held above the average buke, yes; but remember that buke of
                certain ranks were granted court titles making them defacto kuge as well,
                although they weren't born into the class. (Think of a guy whose won the
                lottery and buys a mansion in the Hamptons. Though he's now got the money
                and the power (the "title") he's not -- and never will be -- one of "them."

                > I get the distinct impression that it was very easy to get in lots
                > and lots of trouble by using the wrong form of address to someone who's
                > rank you were unsure of. ("Off with her head!")

                Yup yup yup. <G>


                Effingham/Hiraizumi
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... LOL! Peasants. Gotta love em. Effingham/Hiraizumi
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 6, 2000
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                  Barbara Nostrand wrote:

                  > Thus an amusing scene in the amusing kyogen about back taxes. Two
                  > peasants meet each other in the woods during the dead of Winter
                  > and are immediately terrified of each other. They loosen up after
                  > they establish that they are BOTH peasants.

                  LOL!

                  Peasants. Gotta love 'em.


                  Effingham/Hiraizumi
                • akimoya
                  ... The eel-climber! Akimoya Ealdormere
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 7, 2000
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                    On Mon, 7 Feb 2000, Kass McGann wrote:

                    > Like that nouveau-riche Hideyoshi. Constructing a castle out of gold. How
                    > gauche!

                    The eel-climber!

                    Akimoya
                    Ealdormere
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