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Re: My BBC show finally airs Stateside

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  • Scott
    ... Well no of course not. If i did expect commercials to be completely right then I would have had to rethink watching the episode when I saw it. However,
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 3, 2008
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      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...>
      wrote:
      >
      Well no of course not. If i did expect commercials to be completely
      right then I would have had to rethink watching the episode when I
      saw it. However, since it has not aired yet the commercial was all I
      had to form my initial opinion. I will watch it and see what I think.
      But regardless of the commercial it is a docudrama. Thus I expect
      that they left out things they thought weren't important, and changed
      things to make the story more entertaining.


      > LOL!
      >
      > You can't seriously expect the commercial to get it right. The guy
      who
      > wrote it probably didn't even see the show. :)
      >
      > Trust me, that is *not* what is in the show. :)
      >
      >
      > Effingham
      >
      > On Dec 4, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Scott wrote:
      >
      > > I don't mean this to be a critcism of any of the work that you did
      > > Anthony. I saw the commercials for that episode, and I must say I
      was
      > > a little dismayed at the mistakes just in the commercials. They
      > > portray Ieyasu as a man devoted to a DYING EMPEROR and that he
      takes
      > > on Japan's LONGEST LASTING DYNASTY.... ummmm what.... These are
      > > either glaring inaccuracies, or a poor choice of words that give
      off
      > > the totally wrong impression. Although I cannot be too surprised
      > > after seeing part of the episode on Attila. All historical
      accounts I
      > > know of say that his brother Bleda was killed during a "hunting
      > > accident" (note the quote marks), but in the show Attila throws a
      > > knife into his throat and kills him in front of all the generals
      of
      > > the Hun. That being said.... they are docudarmas, so they are
      > > daramatic representations of historical events. Although, it seems
      > > the writers and directories or whoever took quite a bit of
      dramatic
      > > licensing, which often happens in the entertainment profession it
      > > seems *coughs* 300 *coughs* . I mean ultimately these are meant
      to be
      > > entertaining as well. I still intend to watch the episode and see
      how
      > > it is since my current critique is based on not having seen it
      yet.
      > > But it looks like it might be entertaining despite inaccuracies,
      so I
      > > am looking at it in terms of entertainment not historical facts.
      > >
      > > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Apologies if you are getting this multiple times, but I am mass-
      > > > sending this as I wanted to get the news out as widely as
      possible.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Some of you may have heard about the BBC TV show I did the
      > > research
      > > > for -- on Tokugawa Ieyasu and the Battle of Sekigahara.
      > > >
      > > > If you didn't know, the Readers' Digest version is that some
      time
      > > ago,
      > > > the Beeb contacted me asking me if I'd like to be their
      researcher
      > > for
      > > > a docudrama on the Battle of Sekigahara (for which I literally
      > > wrote
      > > > the book), as part of a series on historical military
      commanders.
      > > > After .004 seconds of hesitation (just to be polite), I said
      yes.
      > > >
      > > > The series was broadcast in the UK in February, and finally has
      > > made
      > > > its way Stateside, so I thought my fellow SCAdians might like to
      > > see
      > > > it. It is on the Military History channel.
      > > >
      > > > There's a brief review I did of the final production and some
      > > > screenshots of it on the Tosando board. It might whet your
      > > appetite
      > > > for it: http://military.discovery.com/tv/warriors/episode-
      > > guide/episode-guide.html
      > > > )
      > > >
      > > > The series itself is about several great historical military
      > > leaders
      > > > at their crossroads: Attila, Cortes, Napoleon, Richard the
      > > > Lionhearted, Spartacus, and Ieyasu. It's showing this week
      > > (starting
      > > > Friday night with Attila), and my ep on Tokugawa Ieyasu is on
      this
      > > > Sunday. (Ironically, the Japanese drama is on Sunday, Dec. 7.
      > > Gotta
      > > > love it.)
      > > >
      > > > About this episode (from their webpage): "Tokugawa Leyasu is a
      > > > towering figure in Japanese history. He is Oliver Cromwell,
      > > Richard
      > > > The Lionheart and Alfred The Great combined - the man who
      > > overthrew
      > > > the governing dynasty of Japan and established a regime that
      would
      > > > last for centuries."
      > > >
      > > > It'll be shown several times.
      > > >
      > > > More about the Warriors series and show times:
      > > http://military.discovery.com/tv/warriors/about/about.html
      > > >
      > > > Historically speaking, it's not perfect -- we had to conflate
      > > months
      > > > of political machinations and maneuvering and conflict into one
      > > hour,
      > > > so some historical personages got rolled into one, and others
      just
      > > > aren't there, and there's more reliance on the "bushido" thing
      than
      > > I
      > > > would have preferred (and there's even a ninja attack that I
      > > BEGGED
      > > > them not to do) but it's still a stunning production, and all
      > > things
      > > > considered I'm pleased and proud to have been attached to it. I
      > > don't
      > > > know what is going to have to be cut out for the US release to
      > > make
      > > > room for commercials, and I really worry about that -- there is
      NO
      > > fat
      > > > in the show that can easily be trimmed. The UK version was 59
      > > minutes
      > > > long, and that was barely enough to do some semblance of justice
      > > to
      > > > the story.
      > > >
      > > > Watch the episode, and then tell yourself "they did this with
      only
      > > 75
      > > > extras and 25 horses" and be amazed. Even Japanese TV had spots
      > > about
      > > > it on their news programs expressing surprise and admiration for
      > > the
      > > > quality and scale of the production given what the budget was.
      > > (Heck,
      > > > just look at the screen shots!)
      > > >
      > > > Check out the show, and let me know you what you think.
      > > >
      > > > Effingham
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Elaine Koogler
      As is mine...I don t have cable, but rather Direct TV...and I finally found the channel...so we re all set to record it! Kiri--looking forward to seeing the
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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        As is mine...I don't have cable, but rather Direct TV...and I finally
        found the channel...so we're all set to record it!

        Kiri--looking forward to seeing the program...

        Andrew T Trembley wrote:
        >
        > Anthony Bryant wrote:
        > > The series itself is about several great historical military leaders
        > > at their crossroads: Attila, Cortes, Napoleon, Richard the
        > > Lionhearted, Spartacus, and Ieyasu. It's showing this week (starting
        > > Friday night with Attila), and my ep on Tokugawa Ieyasu is on this
        > > Sunday. (Ironically, the Japanese drama is on Sunday, Dec. 7. Gotta
        > > love it.)
        > >
        >
        > Just tested the new-and-improved "search" function on my cable box to
        > find it. It's so set to record...
        >
        > andy
        >
        >
      • Anthony Bryant
        ... Oh, definitely. Like I said, several important people have been left out, and some of their actions conflated with other characters -- and there is that
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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          On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:34 AM, Scott wrote:

          > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > Well no of course not. If i did expect commercials to be completely
          > right then I would have had to rethink watching the episode when I
          > saw it. However, since it has not aired yet the commercial was all I
          > had to form my initial opinion. I will watch it and see what I think.
          > But regardless of the commercial it is a docudrama. Thus I expect
          > that they left out things they thought weren't important, and changed
          > things to make the story more entertaining.
          >

          Oh, definitely. Like I said, several important people have been left
          out, and some of their actions conflated with other characters -- and
          there is that bogus ninja attack <shudder>.


          Effingham
        • Rich Goble
          As is mine. I was actually inspired to get off my backside and upgrade to a cable box w/DVR for this show.   - Imagawa ... From: Andrew T Trembley
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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            As is mine. I was actually inspired to get off my backside and upgrade to a cable box w/DVR for this show.
             
            - Imagawa


            --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Andrew T Trembley <attrembl@...> wrote:

            From: Andrew T Trembley <attrembl@...>
            Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] My BBC show finally airs Stateside
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:50 AM






            Anthony Bryant wrote:
            > The series itself is about several great historical military leaders
            > at their crossroads: Attila, Cortes, Napoleon, Richard the
            > Lionhearted, Spartacus, and Ieyasu. It's showing this week (starting
            > Friday night with Attila), and my ep on Tokugawa Ieyasu is on this
            > Sunday. (Ironically, the Japanese drama is on Sunday, Dec. 7. Gotta
            > love it.)
            >

            Just tested the new-and-improved "search" function on my cable box to
            find it. It's so set to record...

            andy














            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • savan39
            Is it only on the Military Channel? because if it is, I wont be able to see it :(
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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              Is it only on the Military Channel? because if it is, I wont be able
              to see it :(
            • Aaron Grossman
              hopefully, bittorrent will be our friend... Kawaguchi no Ryutaro ________________________________ From: savan39 To:
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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                hopefully, bittorrent will be our friend...

                Kawaguchi no Ryutaro




                ________________________________
                From: savan39 <cubejockey100@...>
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 9:20:45 PM
                Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: My BBC show finally airs Stateside


                Is it only on the Military Channel? because if it is, I wont be able
                to see it :(






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Scott
                My DVR has been set since this past Sunday when I saw the ad during the Richard the Lion Heart episode. Tonight I caught part of an episoide, which I set the
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 4, 2008
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                  My DVR has been set since this past Sunday when I saw the ad during
                  the Richard the Lion Heart episode. Tonight I caught part of an
                  episoide, which I set the DVR to record the repeat, of a show called
                  Trial by Fire. I do not know about the show, but in this episode a
                  guy spends a week practicing Yabusame. I don't know how it is since I
                  had to go to work part way through the episode, but I thought I would
                  mention it for anyone who might be interested in keeping an eye out
                  for it. That one was on the regular History Channel though. As for
                  the ninja attack in the Warriors episode...... and here I was
                  thinking it was just Americans who had to try to stick ninja into
                  ANYTHING involving samurai haha.




                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:34 AM, Scott wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > Well no of course not. If i did expect commercials to be
                  completely
                  > > right then I would have had to rethink watching the episode when I
                  > > saw it. However, since it has not aired yet the commercial was
                  all I
                  > > had to form my initial opinion. I will watch it and see what I
                  think.
                  > > But regardless of the commercial it is a docudrama. Thus I expect
                  > > that they left out things they thought weren't important, and
                  changed
                  > > things to make the story more entertaining.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Oh, definitely. Like I said, several important people have been
                  left
                  > out, and some of their actions conflated with other characters --
                  and
                  > there is that bogus ninja attack <shudder>.
                  >
                  >
                  > Effingham
                  >
                • Rich Goble
                  Trial by Fire episode info and viewing schedule (for the Yabusame episode):   http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=389288   Also, there is
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
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                    Trial by Fire episode info and viewing schedule (for the Yabusame episode):
                     
                    http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=389288
                     
                    Also, there is a show called "Time Warp" on the Discovery Channel, where the show's creators capture various things using high speed photography. One episode is called "Samurai Sword Master". The main segment shows a Western samurai master performing tamashigiri (tatami mat cutting), which is interesting to watch. They have the guy come back in the new episode "Barefooter", where his segment involves him cutting a whole salmon and various pig parts with a katana because the show's creators "thought it would be more realistic than cutting tatami mats". Both episodes will be on in the next few days:
                     
                    http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/time-warp/episode/episode.html
                     
                     
                    - Imagawa 


                    --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Scott <scottc_4@...> wrote:

                    From: Scott <scottc_4@...>
                    Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: My BBC show finally airs Stateside
                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 11:36 PM






                    My DVR has been set since this past Sunday when I saw the ad during
                    the Richard the Lion Heart episode. Tonight I caught part of an
                    episoide, which I set the DVR to record the repeat, of a show called
                    Trial by Fire. I do not know about the show, but in this episode a
                    guy spends a week practicing Yabusame. I don't know how it is since I
                    had to go to work part way through the episode, but I thought I would
                    mention it for anyone who might be interested in keeping an eye out
                    for it. That one was on the regular History Channel though. As for
                    the ninja attack in the Warriors episode..... . and here I was
                    thinking it was just Americans who had to try to stick ninja into
                    ANYTHING involving samurai haha.

                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups .com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@ ...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:34 AM, Scott wrote:
                    >
                    > > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups .com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@ >
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > Well no of course not. If i did expect commercials to be
                    completely
                    > > right then I would have had to rethink watching the episode when I
                    > > saw it. However, since it has not aired yet the commercial was
                    all I
                    > > had to form my initial opinion. I will watch it and see what I
                    think.
                    > > But regardless of the commercial it is a docudrama. Thus I expect
                    > > that they left out things they thought weren't important, and
                    changed
                    > > things to make the story more entertaining.
                    > >
                    >
                    > Oh, definitely. Like I said, several important people have been
                    left
                    > out, and some of their actions conflated with other characters --
                    and
                    > there is that bogus ninja attack <shudder>.
                    >
                    >
                    > Effingham
                    >















                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chibasama Ryúichiro
                    It was on a couple nights ago (I think...DVR), very kewl stuff. It went thru a huge, fat ham like butter. Didn t even pause on the bone. You could tell the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
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                      It was on a couple nights ago (I think...DVR), very kewl stuff. It went
                      thru a huge, fat ham like butter. Didn't even pause on the bone. You could
                      tell the guy was a bit nervous about it...he was making excuses about pig
                      bone being denser than human bone before the cut. His concern was
                      misguided. They also asked him what he wanted to see, and he opted for
                      water balloons...also kewl stuff.

                      It was interesting to note that with the hams and the water balloons (but
                      NOT the mat), there was a compression wave traveling right in front of the
                      blade.

                      Live, Love, Learn!
                      -Chiba

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      Rich Goble
                      Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:12 AM
                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: My BBC show finally airs Stateside

                      Trial by Fire episode info and viewing schedule (for the Yabusame episode):
                       
                      http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=389288
                       
                      Also, there is a show called "Time Warp" on the Discovery Channel, where the
                      show's creators capture various things using high speed photography. One
                      episode is called "Samurai Sword Master". The main segment shows a Western
                      samurai master performing tamashigiri (tatami mat cutting), which is
                      interesting to watch. They have the guy come back in the new episode
                      "Barefooter", where his segment involves him cutting a whole salmon and
                      various pig parts with a katana because the show's creators "thought it
                      would be more realistic than cutting tatami mats". Both episodes will be on
                      in the next few days:
                       
                      http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/time-warp/episode/episode.html
                       
                       
                      - Imagawa 


                      --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Scott <scottc_4@...> wrote:

                      From: Scott <scottc_4@...>
                      Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: My BBC show finally airs Stateside
                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 11:36 PM






                      My DVR has been set since this past Sunday when I saw the ad during
                      the Richard the Lion Heart episode. Tonight I caught part of an
                      episoide, which I set the DVR to record the repeat, of a show called
                      Trial by Fire. I do not know about the show, but in this episode a
                      guy spends a week practicing Yabusame. I don't know how it is since I
                      had to go to work part way through the episode, but I thought I would
                      mention it for anyone who might be interested in keeping an eye out
                      for it. That one was on the regular History Channel though. As for
                      the ninja attack in the Warriors episode..... . and here I was
                      thinking it was just Americans who had to try to stick ninja into
                      ANYTHING involving samurai haha.

                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups .com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@ ...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:34 AM, Scott wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups .com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@ >
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > Well no of course not. If i did expect commercials to be
                      completely
                      > > right then I would have had to rethink watching the episode when I
                      > > saw it. However, since it has not aired yet the commercial was
                      all I
                      > > had to form my initial opinion. I will watch it and see what I
                      think.
                      > > But regardless of the commercial it is a docudrama. Thus I expect
                      > > that they left out things they thought weren't important, and
                      changed
                      > > things to make the story more entertaining.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Oh, definitely. Like I said, several important people have been
                      left
                      > out, and some of their actions conflated with other characters --
                      and
                      > there is that bogus ninja attack <shudder>.
                      >
                      >
                      > Effingham
                      >















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                    • Cowan Jeremy
                      ... Just FYI, the Western samurai is James Williams http://www.dojoofthefourwinds.com/instructor.html If his resume concerns you, be assured that he knows
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
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                        ----- Original Message -----From: Rich Goble
                        > Also, there is a show called "Time Warp" on the Discovery <BR>> Channel, where the show's creators capture various things using
                        > high speed photography. One episode is called "Samurai Sword
                        > Master". The main segment shows a Western samurai
                        > master performing tamashigiri (tatami mat cutting)

                        Just FYI, the "Western samurai" is James Williams http://www.dojoofthefourwinds.com/instructor.html

                        If his resume concerns you, be assured that he knows cutting, which is what he is really being asked to do in this show.

                        Jeremy



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • JL Badgley
                        ... I ve seen the episode in question. For those with a deep understanding of history, it is going to have some glaring inaccuracies, but I didn t get
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 5, 2008
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                          On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Scott <scottc_4@...> wrote:
                          > I don't mean this to be a critcism of any of the work that you did
                          > Anthony. I saw the commercials for that episode, and I must say I was
                          > a little dismayed at the mistakes just in the commercials. They
                          > portray Ieyasu as a man devoted to a DYING EMPEROR and that he takes
                          > on Japan's LONGEST LASTING DYNASTY.... ummmm what.... These are
                          > either glaring inaccuracies, or a poor choice of words that give off
                          > the totally wrong impression. Although I cannot be too surprised

                          I've seen the episode in question. For those with a deep
                          understanding of history, it is going to have some glaring
                          inaccuracies, but I didn't get anything like what you are mentioning
                          from what I saw. Most of the inaccuracies involve shortening a very
                          complex political process, reducing the number of characters, and
                          putting it together in a way that makes sense.

                          I should also mention that it is all in English. This jarred me at
                          first, probably because the quality and everything else leads me to
                          expect Japanese. Then again, I don't find it weird that Rome is
                          entirely in English, so I think it is just a bias on my part.

                          I also know that BBC did not always listen to Hiraizumi-dono's advice.
                          Of potential interest: consulting historians are considered to be
                          'on the dole' of the production company, so they can't be used to
                          endorse the work. Thus, the production company gets an 'independent'
                          historian to look over the work and attest to the accuracy of it.
                          Thus, while Hiraizumi-dono's name appears in the credits, a rather
                          more popular name appears more prominently; I think this is rather a
                          disservice, but at the same time, you can legitimately blame the
                          second historian for approving all the inaccuracies, while I'm afraid
                          Hiraizumi-dono was left without veto power.

                          All that said, I really enjoyed this. I think that it is especially
                          good for people with little or no knowledge of Japanese history to
                          help them to understand an important time and place, as well as a
                          talented politican and general.

                          -Ii
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