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New to SCA and need some assistance

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  • Cody
    Greetings nihonjin, I have come back to the SCA after over a decade away. I never even realized that Japanese personae were allowed. I have chosen to follow
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 15, 2008
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      Greetings nihonjin,

      I have come back to the SCA after over a decade away. I never even
      realized that Japanese personae were allowed. I have chosen to follow
      this path for a number of reasons, mostly due to a love of the
      Japanese culture and a wish to learn more about the history and
      reality of it and also the fact that I have spent so many years
      training in Japanese martial arts.

      I thought to write this and intro myself.

      I am in Australia, Brisbane QLD.

      I am hoping to create a persona based on a 1500's yamabushi or ronin
      samurai (being new back into the SCA I am not in any household and as
      such can be nothing but ronin)
      I would like to get into the heavy fighting, tho I used to only do
      archery. Will probably get into that again as well.
      Other things I am interested in are the arts and crafts side of things
      (being skilled in jewellery, weapons and knives, mead brewing (maybe
      have to learn about sake now) and leather work among other things. I
      hope also to improve my haiku and learn the shakuhachi ( can it really
      be that different to the flute and the saxophone? *chuckle*)

      I would really appreciate some assistance from those who have gone before.
      I have looked through these forums and others but truth be told I am
      not sure what exactly I should be searching for.

      The things I would love some assistance in (in no particular order and
      feel free to point me at web sites or other appropriate threads since
      I am not afraid to do some reading and research, and rather enjoy
      learning about):

      Armour for fighting
      Preferably an Australian armourer to make my gear or at least help me
      make my own – I would love to make my own armour completely but I no
      longer have a workshop or the time (family and Full Time job!)
      Does anyone know of an armourer who will do kabuto and such in Australia?
      I have seen some amazing stuff in my searches on the net but with
      current economy I would pay almost double if I bought something from
      the USA and no matter how good the armourer, distance makes fitting
      rather difficult

      Creating a persona name
      I have seen so much discussion on it – I would like to make sure I get
      it right
      Where should I start?

      I think I can blunder my way thought clothing and the arts and
      sciences stuff since they are not strictly "SCA specific" kinds of things

      Is there anything else I should know or take into consideration?

      Anyone able to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated

      Are there any other Australian / Lochac Japanese personae out there?

      Domo Arigato Gozaimasu

      Peace and respect
      James
    • Nick starnes
      Welcome back Samurai!! You will find the people on here most accommodating and willing to help you.   {Bows Low} Hasekure Masashige Darkwater,Trimaris ...
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 15, 2008
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        Welcome back Samurai!! You will find the people on here most accommodating and willing to help you.

        {Bows Low}
        Hasekure Masashige
        Darkwater,Trimaris

        --- On Sat, 11/15/08, Cody <ancientone@...> wrote:

        From: Cody <ancientone@...>
        Subject: [SCA-JML] New to SCA and need some assistance
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 5:17 AM






        Greetings nihonjin,

        I have come back to the SCA after over a decade away. I never even
        realized that Japanese personae were allowed. I have chosen to follow
        this path for a number of reasons, mostly due to a love of the
        Japanese culture and a wish to learn more about the history and
        reality of it and also the fact that I have spent so many years
        training in Japanese martial arts.

        I thought to write this and intro myself.

        I am in Australia, Brisbane QLD.

        I am hoping to create a persona based on a 1500's yamabushi or ronin
        samurai (being new back into the SCA I am not in any household and as
        such can be nothing but ronin)
        I would like to get into the heavy fighting, tho I used to only do
        archery. Will probably get into that again as well.
        Other things I am interested in are the arts and crafts side of things
        (being skilled in jewellery, weapons and knives, mead brewing (maybe
        have to learn about sake now) and leather work among other things. I
        hope also to improve my haiku and learn the shakuhachi ( can it really
        be that different to the flute and the saxophone? *chuckle*)

        I would really appreciate some assistance from those who have gone before.
        I have looked through these forums and others but truth be told I am
        not sure what exactly I should be searching for.

        The things I would love some assistance in (in no particular order and
        feel free to point me at web sites or other appropriate threads since
        I am not afraid to do some reading and research, and rather enjoy
        learning about):

        Armour for fighting
        Preferably an Australian armourer to make my gear or at least help me
        make my own � I would love to make my own armour completely but I no
        longer have a workshop or the time (family and Full Time job!)
        Does anyone know of an armourer who will do kabuto and such in Australia?
        I have seen some amazing stuff in my searches on the net but with
        current economy I would pay almost double if I bought something from
        the USA and no matter how good the armourer, distance makes fitting
        rather difficult

        Creating a persona name
        I have seen so much discussion on it � I would like to make sure I get
        it right
        Where should I start?

        I think I can blunder my way thought clothing and the arts and
        sciences stuff since they are not strictly "SCA specific" kinds of things

        Is there anything else I should know or take into consideration?

        Anyone able to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated

        Are there any other Australian / Lochac Japanese personae out there?

        Domo Arigato Gozaimasu

        Peace and respect
        James


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wodeford
        Ohayo dosu, tomodachi. You have a lot of questions, naturally. Your first stop should be here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/links and
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 15, 2008
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          Ohayo dosu, tomodachi.

          You have a lot of questions, naturally.

          Your first stop should be here:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/links and
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files

          The Links and Files sections include resources on names, clothing,
          armor, and so forth.

          Read, digest, enjoy.

          Saionji no Hanae
          West Kingdom
        • Michael Peters
          James, For yamabushi persona, a very basic helmet is fine as it will be covered anyway. For body protection a haramaki dou or even a hara ate (1500ish). Beyond
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 15, 2008
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            James,

            For yamabushi persona, a very basic helmet is fine as it will be covered anyway. For body protection a haramaki dou or even a hara ate (1500ish). Beyond that, leg protection can be covered thus most anything will work.

            Mykaru






            _________________________________________________________________
            Discover the new Windows Vista
            http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Cody
            Thanks for the welcome regarding names - I have done a bit of readingand now I just need to find soemthign that fits my ideas - I am not sure if there are any
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 15, 2008
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              Thanks for the welcome

              regarding names - I have done a bit of readingand now I just need to
              find soemthign that fits my ideas - I am not sure if there are any
              specific rules regarding names for yambushi

              regarding armour - I still have a bit of research to do - only been
              able to find a single image of yamabushi armour

              however I am aware that a number of samurai did end up exiling
              themselves and family to the mountains after being on the losing side
              of various battles during sengoku jidai so I think I can reasonably
              use samurai armour and name styles

              am I correct in these assumptions?

              as to helmet - well I fell in love with an oki-tenugui with tengu
              menpo *drool*

              I figured that with the armour I will use what I already have from
              other things (mainly motorcycle armour for spine and arms and legs and
              then take my time making up period looking armour from plastic (simply
              as it is something I have the immediate ability to obtain and build
              myself)

              As to clothes - well it looks like I will be relearning how to sew - I
              dont imagine my hakama and gi (black and white) really fit the period!
              *chuckle*

              peace and thanks

              James
            • Ellen Badgley
              James, Welcome! I salute you for being interested in a yamabushi persona, as it s a really interesting occupation in premodern Japan. As for the names, your
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 16, 2008
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                James,

                Welcome! I salute you for being interested in a yamabushi persona, as it's
                a really interesting "occupation" in premodern Japan.

                As for the names, your samurai armor/name assumption sounds reasonable-- but
                I am not an expert, and other members of the list can probably advise you
                better. If you are going for a yamabushi persona, keep in mind that
                yamabushi fall under the Buddhist priest/monk umbrella, so you should also
                familiarize yourself with those name structures.

                (For extra yamabushi fun, there are a bunch of kyougen plays centering
                around yamabushi characters, where the yamabushi either 1) gets the better
                of everyone, or 2) ends up being totally humiliated. There is a great book
                called "Transformation, Miracles and Mischief" that contains the translated
                text of several of these plays, and also examines them in a scholarly
                fashion.)

                As far as clothing goes, I would absolutely encourage you to check out the
                Costume Museum site if you haven't already, as they have one reconstruction
                of typical yamabushi clothing:
                http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/20.htm. (Little hat, big
                pompoms, and deer butt, in summary.) Modern hakama are something you can
                absolutely "fudge" to begin with-- it's what a lot of us have done-- but
                period ones are easy enough to reconstruct, too.

                - Abe Akirakeiko

                On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Cody <ancientone@...> wrote:

                > Thanks for the welcome
                >
                > regarding names - I have done a bit of readingand now I just need to
                > find soemthign that fits my ideas - I am not sure if there are any
                > specific rules regarding names for yambushi
                >
                > regarding armour - I still have a bit of research to do - only been
                > able to find a single image of yamabushi armour
                >
                > however I am aware that a number of samurai did end up exiling
                > themselves and family to the mountains after being on the losing side
                > of various battles during sengoku jidai so I think I can reasonably
                > use samurai armour and name styles
                >
                > am I correct in these assumptions?
                >
                > as to helmet - well I fell in love with an oki-tenugui with tengu
                > menpo *drool*
                >
                > I figured that with the armour I will use what I already have from
                > other things (mainly motorcycle armour for spine and arms and legs and
                > then take my time making up period looking armour from plastic (simply
                > as it is something I have the immediate ability to obtain and build
                > myself)
                >
                > As to clothes - well it looks like I will be relearning how to sew - I
                > dont imagine my hakama and gi (black and white) really fit the period!
                > *chuckle*
                >
                > peace and thanks
                >
                > James
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cody
                Domo arigato Akirakeiko-san, the link for the museum site is excellent and I look forward to looking into the plays you mention. What is very interesting to me
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 16, 2008
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                  Domo arigato Akirakeiko-san,

                  the link for the museum site is excellent and I look forward to
                  looking into the plays you mention.
                  What is very interesting to me is the type of plays you mention -
                  "kyougen plays centering around yamabushi characters, where the
                  yamabushi either 1) gets the better of everyone, or 2) ends up being
                  totally humiliated." I am sure the "kyogen" (without knowing what it
                  really means) is connected to "kyojutsu" which is a large part of the
                  martial arts I learn - we are told it is the art of manipulating the
                  appearance of what is true and false. What I find even more
                  interesting is the connection of the yamabushi to the tengu - the
                  tengu definitely being known for manipulating the appearances of
                  things and as well as being tricksters of a kind - either getting the
                  better of others (usually the indignantly self righteous) or looking a
                  bit silly!)


                  I have some idea bout the clothes (meanign I have seen them a few
                  times) - but by no means an expert. I also really am looking forward
                  to getting my hands on a nice wide gasa(?) hat. I have wanted one for
                  a long time (perhaps a throw back to my kenjutsu training and wanting
                  to look as cool as thos kenshi manga characters! *wink*
                  But the traditional yamabushi outfit is rather amusing - I know the
                  basics (just wish I knew what all the little bits mean/represent)


                  Again thanks

                  peace and respect

                  James
                • Solveig Throndardottir
                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! There is a fellow who has been recreating a yamabushi for years now. I believe that his name is Kuji. Please understand
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 16, 2008
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                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig! There is a fellow who has been recreating a
                    yamabushi for years now. I believe that his name is Kuji. Please
                    understand that the yamabushi have their own religion which
                    involves mountain gods and should not be confused with Buddhism.
                    Here is a book which you should read in addition to the kyōgen
                    book already mentioned:

                    Title: The Gods Come Dancing: A Study of the Ritual Dance of
                    Yamabushi Kagura
                    Author: Irit Averbuch
                    Publisher: Cornell Univ East Asia Program
                    ISBN:1885445679

                    The yamabushi cult should not be confused either with Buddhism or
                    main stream
                    Shintoh. The yamabushi have their own division with kyōgen plays
                    which is
                    separate from the division for buddhist priests.

                    Also, please do not confuse the yamabushi with the sōhei (warrior
                    monks).
                    Since you wrote about armor, are you possibly interested in recreating
                    a sōhei 僧兵 instead of a yamabushi 山伏.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                  • Solveig Throndardottir
                    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! 狂言 (kyougen) means crazy speech . It is a comic theatrical form which may find its roots in 猿楽 (monkey music)
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 16, 2008
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                      Noble Cousins!

                      Greetings from Solveig! 狂言 (kyougen) means "crazy speech".
                      It is a comic theatrical form which may find its roots in
                      猿楽 (monkey music) and 神楽 (god music) which are earlier
                      theatrical forms.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • coyote Silverpaw
                      Solveig - thank you for the book reference I am not looking to be a dancer *smiles* tho I am keenly aware of the connection between such dance and combative
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 16, 2008
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                        Solveig - thank you for the book reference
                        I am not looking to be a dancer *smiles* tho I am keenly aware of the connection between such dance and combative taijutsu - the comparison between these two things can provide some very interesting revelations, even geisha dances can be steeped with combat techniques - however one really must be adept at both dancing and combat to truly see the crossovers and the differences

                        >>The yamabushi cult should not be confused either with Buddhism or main stream Shintoh. The yamabushi have their own division with kyōgen plays which is separate from the division for buddhist priests.

                        I am aware of shugendo and its basic precepts - tho I am still considering a samurai who has been driven to the mountains by war - obviously many of the higher ranking retainers would have committed seppuku - so nobody overly "ooh eerr" in the scheme of things

                        I am not particularly interested in sohei (tho I do like the weapons they primarily were known to use) - as I will have my wonderful partner with me it could be a tad difficult to try and play a japanese buddhist monk with a gorgeous reds headed woman on my arm!

                        I was under the impression that the yamabushi were also used as mercenaries and hired advisors - not just simple mountain ascetics - there are many stories that yamabushi were indeed very accomplished combatants - I will have to continue my research to see if such stories are simply that or if indeed I can find some eveidence of it

                        again thanks

                        James

                        call me coyote, call me raven, call me something else
                        youd be right, youd be wrong!
                        Find something worth dying for, and LIVE for it!





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Solveig Throndardottir
                        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I fear that you misunderstood why I posted the reference. It was not a suggestion that you learn how to dance. It was
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 17, 2008
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                          Noble Cousin!

                          Greetings from Solveig!
                          > I am not looking to be a dancer *smiles* tho I am keenly aware of
                          > the connection between such dance and combative taijutsu - the
                          > comparison between these two things can provide some very
                          > interesting revelations, even geisha dances can be steeped with
                          > combat techniques - however one really must be adept at both
                          > dancing and combat to truly see the crossovers and the differences
                          I fear that you misunderstood why I posted the reference. It was not
                          a suggestion that you learn how to dance. It was a suggestion that
                          you learn more about yamabushi culture.
                          > I am aware of shugendo and its basic precepts - tho I am still
                          > considering a samurai who has been driven to the mountains by war -
                          > obviously many of the higher ranking retainers would have committed
                          > seppuku - so nobody overly "ooh eerr" in the scheme of things
                          Ahh. Unless you are proposing to start out as a high ranking fellow
                          whose head would be worth showing off, then it is likely that you
                          would simply be absorbed into the army of the wining side. An
                          independent retreat into the mountains is something that a big name
                          would do. You get to read about this sort of thing in Heike
                          Monogatari and the feud within the victorious Minamoto. If you are
                          interested in the supposed behavior of Hideyoshi and the treatment of
                          soldiers on the defeated side during the sengogku period, then I
                          recommend that you read the book Taiko.

                          ISBN: 4770026099

                          Your Humble Servant
                          Solveig Throndardottir
                          Amateur Scholar






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Cody
                          Nay lady - no misunderstanding on my part - I recognise your words as freely given and well received advice / suggestions. I merely had a little chuckle at the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 17, 2008
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                            Nay lady - no misunderstanding on my part - I recognise your words as
                            freely given and well received advice / suggestions.

                            I merely had a little chuckle at the thought of learning to dance as
                            it relates to my martial studies and as you said the cultural
                            understanding of the yamabushi - in fact the idea of learning to
                            dance this way may not be so outlandish afterall!

                            As the SCA assumes we are all in some way nobility, would it be too
                            much to assume a (somewhat) high rank and thus keeping in tact the
                            story of escaping to the mountains after being on the unfortunate
                            side of a battle?
                            I know then that it changes the personae from being a true mountain
                            ascetic but I am looking for fun as well as historical truths.

                            James

                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Noble Cousin!
                            >
                            > Greetings from Solveig!
                            > > I am not looking to be a dancer *smiles* tho I am keenly aware
                            of
                            > > the connection between such dance and combative taijutsu - the
                            > > comparison between these two things can provide some very
                            > > interesting revelations, even geisha dances can be steeped with
                            > > combat techniques - however one really must be adept at both
                            > > dancing and combat to truly see the crossovers and the differences
                            > I fear that you misunderstood why I posted the reference. It was
                            not
                            > a suggestion that you learn how to dance. It was a suggestion that
                            > you learn more about yamabushi culture.
                            > > I am aware of shugendo and its basic precepts - tho I am still
                            > > considering a samurai who has been driven to the mountains by
                            war -
                            > > obviously many of the higher ranking retainers would have
                            committed
                            > > seppuku - so nobody overly "ooh eerr" in the scheme of things
                            > Ahh. Unless you are proposing to start out as a high ranking
                            fellow
                            > whose head would be worth showing off, then it is likely that you
                            > would simply be absorbed into the army of the wining side. An
                            > independent retreat into the mountains is something that a big
                            name
                            > would do. You get to read about this sort of thing in Heike
                            > Monogatari and the feud within the victorious Minamoto. If you are
                            > interested in the supposed behavior of Hideyoshi and the treatment
                            of
                            > soldiers on the defeated side during the sengogku period, then I
                            > recommend that you read the book Taiko.
                            >
                            > ISBN: 4770026099
                            >
                            > Your Humble Servant
                            > Solveig Throndardottir
                            > Amateur Scholar
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Solveig Throndardottir
                            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Sorry, but it really doesn t work that well from a Japanese point of view. You might try to go for something rather
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 17, 2008
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                              Noble Cousin!

                              Greetings from Solveig!
                              >
                              > As the SCA assumes we are all in some way nobility, would it be too
                              > much to assume a (somewhat) high rank and thus keeping in tact the
                              > story of escaping to the mountains after being on the unfortunate
                              > side of a battle?
                              Sorry, but it really doesn't work that well from a Japanese point of
                              view.
                              You might try to go for something rather different involving surviving
                              a battle and taking Buddhist vows similar to the fellow that kills
                              Atsumori, but that would put you in mainstream Buddhism, it would
                              not have you be part of the yamabushi cult. Regardless, the most
                              typical reason for folks to abandon life and take to the mountains
                              involves some sort of penance in a Buddhist sense. It has little to do
                              with escape unless you decide to be a bandit for some reason or other.
                              Basically, you will find four types in the mountains: bandits, hermits,
                              rustic peasants, and to some extent yamabushi. The problem with
                              yamabushi though is that they don't actually take refuge in the
                              mountains.
                              They actually make pilgrimages into the mountains. The cult exists
                              today.
                              I recall seeing at least on one occasion a group of such pilgrims in the
                              mountains.

                              Your Humble Servant
                              Solveig Throndardottir
                              Amateur Scholar






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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