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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Kamon Color

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  • Elaine Koogler
    I just heard back from one of the heralds who has, for several years, worked with the submission process (devices in particular) with the Wreath Herald. This
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 4 4:53 PM
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      I just heard back from one of the heralds who has, for several years,
      worked with the submission process (devices in particular) with the
      Wreath Herald. This is the person who handles submissions for the
      Laurel Sovereign of Arms. According to him:

      "Vert and purpure were certainly not common in period European heraldry.
      There were practical problems with vert fields (they blended into the
      background too well in most places), and the color was associated with
      the Saracens (green is quite common in Islamic heraldry). Purpure
      started out as a purplish gray -- described as "a mixture of all the
      other tinctures" in a number of early sources -- and wasn't terribly
      popular as such; true purples would not have been very colorfast on
      shields, and the colorfast purple fabric dyes were so expensive that
      only the serious uppermost crust could afford them.

      However, we do have some examples of both vert and purpure being used
      throughout medieval and renaissance Europe (East and West). So, while
      the heralds will often point out that the two tinctures are less common,
      and we may try to dampen enthusisasm for OVER-using them, we do NOT
      discourage their use."

      I hope this will sort things out...

      Kiri

      Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
      >
      > Noble Cousin!
      >
      > Greetings from Solveig!
      >
      > > Out of curiosity, is this prejudice against green and purple just for
      > > Japanese heraldry or do you believe it to be across the board?
      >
      > I believe that the prejudice is across the board. Within a strictly
      > Japanese context, both colors are somewhat unusual and may
      > have at various times been restricted. I do not recall seeing
      > purple and green used by banners in battle paintings.
      >
      > Your Humble Servant
      > Solveig Throndardottir
      > Amateur Scholar
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Solveig Throndardottir
      Kiri hime! ... That changed after the modest proposal eliminated conflict checking against Papworth, &c. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 5 12:24 AM
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        Kiri hime!

        > I hate to disagree with you, Solveig, but I know that, unless things
        > have changed drastically, folks were encouraged to register heraldry
        > using purple and green specifically because there weren't a whole
        > lot of
        > devices registered with the CoH that used those colors...the other
        > colors and the metals aare heavily used.

        That changed after the "modest proposal" eliminated conflict checking
        against Papworth, &c.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar






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      • Maddalena Alessandra
        As someone who passed a European style  device purpure(purple) and blue(azure) per pale (vertical split) for the field and  with these same colors
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 5 6:49 PM
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          As someone who passed a European style  device purpure(purple) and blue(azure) per pale (vertical split) for the field and  with these same colors and division for  the charge a badge fieldless(no specified background color), it passed a decade ago, but you get some looks especially from heralds if the colors kinda meld, such as mine and a friend who use a green and blue split field
           
          Maeda/Madd Alex

          --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@...> wrote:







          This is the person who handles submissions for the
          Laurel Sovereign of Arms. According to him:

          "Vert and purpure were certainly not common in period European heraldry. 
          Purpure started out as a purplish gray ---- and wasn't terribly
          popular true purples were so expensive

          However, we do have some examples of both vert and purpure being used throughout medieval and renaissance Europe (East and West). So,  we may try to dampen enthusisasm for OVER-using them, we do NOT discourage their use."

          Kiri

          Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
          > I believe that the prejudice is across the board. Within a strictly
          > Japanese context, both colors are somewhat unusual and may
          > have at various times been restricted. I do not recall seeing
          > purple and green used by banners in battle paintings.
          >
          > Your Humble Servant
          > Solveig Throndardottir
          > Amateur Scholar

           
          .














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