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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Kamon Color

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  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I believe that the prejudice is across the board. Within a strictly Japanese context, both colors are somewhat
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 4, 2008
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      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      > Out of curiosity, is this prejudice against green and purple just for
      > Japanese heraldry or do you believe it to be across the board?

      I believe that the prejudice is across the board. Within a strictly
      Japanese context, both colors are somewhat unusual and may
      have at various times been restricted. I do not recall seeing
      purple and green used by banners in battle paintings.

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Elaine Koogler
      I hate to disagree with you, Solveig, but I know that, unless things have changed drastically, folks were encouraged to register heraldry using purple and
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 4, 2008
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        I hate to disagree with you, Solveig, but I know that, unless things
        have changed drastically, folks were encouraged to register heraldry
        using purple and green specifically because there weren't a whole lot of
        devices registered with the CoH that used those colors...the other
        colors and the metals aare heavily used. Also encouraged were the
        unusual furs...plummety, etc. I even have one friend, a Countess, whose
        heraldry has a purple and green (divided per pale...vertically, for
        those of you who are unfamiliar with heraldic terminology) field! And,
        given that more and more heraldry is being registered, which means that
        bringing devices/badges clear of conflict, I find it hard to un is more
        difficult, I do not understand why they would do this. Yes, there is a
        restriction on orange as it does not conform with the 14th century basis
        for how we do heraldry in the SCA.

        However, it may have changed, so I will check with our current heraldic
        staff and inquire.

        Kiri

        Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
        >
        > Noble Cousin!
        >
        > Greetings from Solveig!
        >
        > > Out of curiosity, is this prejudice against green and purple just for
        > > Japanese heraldry or do you believe it to be across the board?
        >
        > I believe that the prejudice is across the board. Within a strictly
        > Japanese context, both colors are somewhat unusual and may
        > have at various times been restricted. I do not recall seeing
        > purple and green used by banners in battle paintings.
        >
        > Your Humble Servant
        > Solveig Throndardottir
        > Amateur Scholar
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
      • Elaine Koogler
        I just heard back from one of the heralds who has, for several years, worked with the submission process (devices in particular) with the Wreath Herald. This
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 4, 2008
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          I just heard back from one of the heralds who has, for several years,
          worked with the submission process (devices in particular) with the
          Wreath Herald. This is the person who handles submissions for the
          Laurel Sovereign of Arms. According to him:

          "Vert and purpure were certainly not common in period European heraldry.
          There were practical problems with vert fields (they blended into the
          background too well in most places), and the color was associated with
          the Saracens (green is quite common in Islamic heraldry). Purpure
          started out as a purplish gray -- described as "a mixture of all the
          other tinctures" in a number of early sources -- and wasn't terribly
          popular as such; true purples would not have been very colorfast on
          shields, and the colorfast purple fabric dyes were so expensive that
          only the serious uppermost crust could afford them.

          However, we do have some examples of both vert and purpure being used
          throughout medieval and renaissance Europe (East and West). So, while
          the heralds will often point out that the two tinctures are less common,
          and we may try to dampen enthusisasm for OVER-using them, we do NOT
          discourage their use."

          I hope this will sort things out...

          Kiri

          Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
          >
          > Noble Cousin!
          >
          > Greetings from Solveig!
          >
          > > Out of curiosity, is this prejudice against green and purple just for
          > > Japanese heraldry or do you believe it to be across the board?
          >
          > I believe that the prejudice is across the board. Within a strictly
          > Japanese context, both colors are somewhat unusual and may
          > have at various times been restricted. I do not recall seeing
          > purple and green used by banners in battle paintings.
          >
          > Your Humble Servant
          > Solveig Throndardottir
          > Amateur Scholar
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Kiri hime! ... That changed after the modest proposal eliminated conflict checking against Papworth, &c. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 5, 2008
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            Kiri hime!

            > I hate to disagree with you, Solveig, but I know that, unless things
            > have changed drastically, folks were encouraged to register heraldry
            > using purple and green specifically because there weren't a whole
            > lot of
            > devices registered with the CoH that used those colors...the other
            > colors and the metals aare heavily used.

            That changed after the "modest proposal" eliminated conflict checking
            against Papworth, &c.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Maddalena Alessandra
            As someone who passed a European style  device purpure(purple) and blue(azure) per pale (vertical split) for the field and  with these same colors
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 5, 2008
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              As someone who passed a European style  device purpure(purple) and blue(azure) per pale (vertical split) for the field and  with these same colors and division for  the charge a badge fieldless(no specified background color), it passed a decade ago, but you get some looks especially from heralds if the colors kinda meld, such as mine and a friend who use a green and blue split field
               
              Maeda/Madd Alex

              --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@...> wrote:







              This is the person who handles submissions for the
              Laurel Sovereign of Arms. According to him:

              "Vert and purpure were certainly not common in period European heraldry. 
              Purpure started out as a purplish gray ---- and wasn't terribly
              popular true purples were so expensive

              However, we do have some examples of both vert and purpure being used throughout medieval and renaissance Europe (East and West). So,  we may try to dampen enthusisasm for OVER-using them, we do NOT discourage their use."

              Kiri

              Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
              > I believe that the prejudice is across the board. Within a strictly
              > Japanese context, both colors are somewhat unusual and may
              > have at various times been restricted. I do not recall seeing
              > purple and green used by banners in battle paintings.
              >
              > Your Humble Servant
              > Solveig Throndardottir
              > Amateur Scholar

               
              .














              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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