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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Device Newbie Questions

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  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... The College of Arms pretty much abandoned protecting historical armory about fifteen years ago. Today, it only
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 2, 2008
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      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      > to register it, and it won't show up on award scrolls, etc. As long as
      > you aren't using someone else's historical or SCA armory, no one can
      > stop you from using a design you like.

      The College of Arms pretty much abandoned protecting historical
      armory about fifteen years ago. Today, it only protects "important"
      armory outside of the Society. There is even armory which they
      should in my opinion be protecting which last I heard they do not.
      This includes the provincial arms of the Canadian Provinces and
      the sixteen petal chrysanthemum. Incidentally, you can get arrested
      in Japan for misusing the sixteen petal chrysanthemum. Or at least
      as recently as the late 1980's when a Japanese businessman was
      arrested for doing so.

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar






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    • Kelly Thurman Peters
      Just so I have it straight on the 3D aspect, this type of butterfly: http://i29.tinypic.com/n39p91.jpg would be approvable, but not the one I had chosen?
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 2, 2008
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        Just so I have it straight on the 3D aspect, this type of butterfly:
        http://i29.tinypic.com/n39p91.jpg would be approvable, but not the
        one I had chosen?

        _______
        Takeda Sakura
        Webminister: Crimson River



        On Jul 2, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Furukusu Masahide (Taliesin) wrote:

        > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kelly Thurman Peters <Nichy@...>
        > wrote:
        > <snip>
        > > I'm not familiar with creating a device at all, I don't understand
        > > exactly what that means. Does it mean the way the butterfly is
        > turned?
        > >
        >
        > Greetings!
        >
        > I happen to be something of a herald, so I thought I would comment on
        > some of your questions here.
        >
        > Train aspect is a term used in heraldry to describe a 3D or 3/4 aspect
        > figure. This gives depth to the figure and makes it look like it is
        > three dimensional. Period western (and SCA) heraldry use 2D figures
        > and
        > represntations. Think "flat", "face on", or "side on" items. The
        > blossom is drawn in an acceptable style.
        >
        > Submitting armory to the College of Arms in the SCA means that you
        > will
        > need to have a design that can be descibed using the European methods
        > of heraldry. Appropriate design for Japanese Mon really doesn't matter
        > from that standpoint (don't get me wrong, I like appropriate period
        > Japanese Mon, but from a registration standpoint in the SCA it really
        > doesn't matter).
        >
        > If you want a butterfly (think western butterfly pinned into an insect
        > collection) and you want to put some sakura blossoms on the wings,
        > that
        > is possible. The butterfly you have now cannot be described as
        > a "normal" "western" butterfly, and will not (yes I am making
        > assumptions with this, but based on my experience it is true) be able
        > to be registered.
        >
        > As far as the sakura blossom goes, I'm not sure if it could be
        > registered as such, or simply registered as a "cinq-foil" (a five
        > petaled flower) with the depiction being artistic license.
        >
        > The other option is this: If you find a design that is in a Japanese
        > period style, and you want to use it, go ahead. You just won't be able
        > to register it, and it won't show up on award scrolls, etc. As long as
        > you aren't using someone else's historical or SCA armory, no one can
        > stop you from using a design you like.
        >
        > Furukusu Masahide
        >
        >
        >



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      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... You would have a better chance of getting it through the College of Arms. However, you might still have problems due
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 2, 2008
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          > Just so I have it straight on the 3D aspect, this type of butterfly:
          > http://i29.tinypic.com/n39p91.jpg would be approvable, but not the
          > one I had chosen?

          You would have a better chance of getting it through the College of
          Arms.
          However, you might still have problems due to the non Anglo-Norman
          depiction of the butterfly.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar






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        • kegage
          You might consider submitting the kamon as butterfly from the side (a butterfly statant, closed)with the sakura on the wing. After it passes the college s
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 3, 2008
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            You might consider submitting the kamon as butterfly from the side (a
            butterfly statant, closed)with the sakura on the wing. After it passes
            the college's scrutiny, display it in Trian Aspect.

            Uilleam

            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kelly Thurman Peters <Nichy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just so I have it straight on the 3D aspect, this type of butterfly:
            > http://i29.tinypic.com/n39p91.jpg would be approvable, but not the
            > one I had chosen?
            >
            > _______
            > Takeda Sakura
            > Webminister: Crimson River
            >
          • Kelly Thurman Peters
            Do you know where I could find an image like that? If for no other reason that to use it to draw something off of. _______ Takeda Sakura Webminister: Crimson
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 3, 2008
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              Do you know where I could find an image like that? If for no other
              reason that to use it to draw something off of.

              _______
              Takeda Sakura
              Webminister: Crimson River



              On Jul 3, 2008, at 5:49 PM, kegage wrote:

              > You might consider submitting the kamon as butterfly from the side (a
              > butterfly statant, closed)with the sakura on the wing. After it passes
              > the college's scrutiny, display it in Trian Aspect.
              >
              > Uilleam
              >
              > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kelly Thurman Peters <Nichy@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Just so I have it straight on the 3D aspect, this type of butterfly:
              > > http://i29.tinypic.com/n39p91.jpg would be approvable, but not the
              > > one I had chosen?


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • kegage
              I don t have a source at the moment, but I will search around and see what I can find. Uilleam
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 5, 2008
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                I don't have a source at the moment, but I will search around and see
                what I can find.

                Uilleam

                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kelly Thurman Peters <Nichy@...> wrote:
                >
                > Do you know where I could find an image like that? If for no other
                > reason that to use it to draw something off of.
                >
                > _______
                > Takeda Sakura
                > Webminister: Crimson River
                >
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