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Kamon Size?

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  • Ezequiel
    Greetings and well met! My question is really quick and posibly easy. What is the size of the kamon on the Kataguni? (top and hakama) Humbly, - Sukeie
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 2, 2008
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      Greetings and well met!
      My question is really quick and posibly easy. What is the size of the
      kamon on the Kataguni? (top and hakama)

      Humbly,
      - Sukeie
    • Solveig Throndardottir
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Generally speaking, the farther back you go, the bigger the kamon get. Also, the business about putting only one, two,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 2, 2008
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        Generally speaking, the farther back you go, the bigger the kamon
        get. Also, the business about putting only one, two, three, or five
        on your clothes is pretty recent. Early practice was to stick the
        things all over the garment sort of like polka dots.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wodeford
        ... It varies. You can go really big and bold or with smaller kamon in this period. Examples of the use of kamon or kamon-like designs on kataginu: Several
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 2, 2008
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          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Ezequiel" <sekinakagawa@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings and well met!
          > My question is really quick and posibly easy. What is the size of the
          > kamon on the Kataguni? (top and hakama)

          It varies. You can go really big and bold or with smaller kamon in
          this period.

          Examples of the use of kamon or kamon-like designs on kataginu:

          Several figures in this detail of "The Maple Viewers", a 16th century
          painting. Kneeling man at left in black kataginu and the standing man
          with parasol at right both show large designs, while the figure in the
          green cloud patterned ensemble (which looks rather like OD green camo)
          has smaller ones:
          http://www.tnm.go.jp/gallery/search/images/max/C0042445.jpg

          Here's Ii-dono's interpretation of a large kamon design on a kataginu.
          http://wodefordhall.com/iikataginuback.jpg

          This figure from the Kyoto Costume Museum displays smaller kamon on
          his kataginu. The outfit is based on a portrait of Oda Nobunaga.
          http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/27.htm
          http://www.samurai-archives.com/image/nobunaga.jpg

          Saionji no Hanae
          West Kingdom
        • JL Badgley
          ... I should point out that while the placement of the design is too low, I took this from a display at the Hikone museum that had a kataginu of hemp with the
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 2, 2008
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            On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:13 AM, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
            > Here's Ii-dono's interpretation of a large kamon design on a kataginu.
            > http://wodefordhall.com/iikataginuback.jpg
            >
            I should point out that while the placement of the design is too low,
            I took this from a display at the Hikone museum that had a kataginu of
            hemp with the character for well ('i') write large upon its back. At
            the same time, I think the garment itself was a repro for the
            character of Ii Naomasa in 'Aoi Tokugawa Sandai', so keep that in
            mind.

            -Ii
          • sekinakagawa@aol.com
            Greetings and well met! Thank you all, as always the fact of so many periods comes out, and all your answers are so well put. So, for shorts I could use a
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 2, 2008
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              Greetings and well met!
              Thank you all, as always the fact of so many periods comes out, and all
              your answers are so well put. So, for shorts I could use a single large one on
              the back of the upper portion of the garment and it would be ok (what about
              the front?) or I could do as in the Nobunaga picture and again what would the
              approximate size of the "small ones" when you use 5 markings would be?

              Humbly,
              - Sukeie
              To ask a question, may be a moments shame,
              but not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.



              **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
              fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • wodeford
              ... all ... large one on ... (what about ... would the ... If you do the large one, there really isn t room on the front to repeat it, though you could
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 2, 2008
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                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, sekinakagawa@... wrote:
                >
                > Greetings and well met!
                > Thank you all, as always the fact of so many periods comes out, and
                all
                > your answers are so well put. So, for shorts I could use a single
                large one on
                > the back of the upper portion of the garment and it would be ok
                (what about
                > the front?) or I could do as in the Nobunaga picture and again what
                would the
                > approximate size of the "small ones" when you use 5 markings would be?

                If you do the large one, there really isn't room on the front to
                repeat it, though you could certainly embellish both sides with
                stripes above the kamon as in Ii-dono's red kataginu.

                For the smaller two-front/one-back arrangement, maybe 2 to 2.5 inches
                in diameter. (Modern crested haori and kimono tend to have even
                smaller kamon on them, around 1.5 to 2 inches.)

                Saionji no Hanae
                West Kingdom
              • Ezequiel
                Hanae-hime, Thank you so much for the info and thanks to Solveig, Ii, and everyone else. I will be working on marking my garbs this weekend as I am not going
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 3, 2008
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                  Hanae-hime,
                  Thank you so much for the info and thanks to Solveig, Ii, and everyone
                  else. I will be working on marking my garbs this weekend as I am not
                  going to make it to the An Tir / West War (couldn't get out of work)
                  and will post picures of them (maybe even with me wearing them,
                  hehehe).

                  Humbly,
                  - Sukeie
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