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Re: Cut of Heian ginu

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  • wodeford
    Of possible interest: http://wodefordhall.com/heian.htm And recent photos of me in karaginu mo at CostumeCon 26. Ginu are cut to the same size and I ran a
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 5, 2008
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      Of possible interest:
      http://wodefordhall.com/heian.htm

      And recent photos of me in karaginu mo at CostumeCon 26. Ginu are cut
      to the same size and I ran a single tacking stich through the collar
      at the back of the neck and through the top of each set of sleeves.
      (Like lettuce on an overstuffed sandwich, my hitoe sleeves have never
      behaved properly.)
      http://imagecraft.smugmug.com/gallery/4902732_3mA59#P-6-9

      Assuming internet is restored at home, I will have a look at Dalby
      again after work.

      Saionji no Hanae,
      West Kingdom
    • Ellen Badgley
      I just pulled out Jidai Ishou no Nuikata. Some thoughts: - The itsutsuginu in Jidai Ishou no Nuikata is a period cheater garment, made with one body and
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 5, 2008
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        I just pulled out Jidai Ishou no Nuikata. Some thoughts:

        - The itsutsuginu in Jidai Ishou no Nuikata is a period "cheater"
        garment, made with one body and five sets of sleeves/collars/hems.
        For that, it would make sense that any offset, if it exists, would be
        sewn into the garment...but from the illustration of the reconstructed
        garment, it does not appear that there is any offset, or if there is,
        it is very small. (That particular itsutsuginu, though, is five
        layers of the same color, so there's less to contrast).

        - Ii is right about there being a size difference between the inner
        and the other layers of the *whole ensemble*: the bodies are all the
        same size, but the sleeve widths-- and lengths-- vary. The sleeves of
        the outer layers (uwagi and uchiginu) are about a centimeter or so
        smaller in width than the itsutsuginu, but about 5 centimeters smaller
        in length (I believe to help the inner layers "pooch" out and show
        more clearly). The inner layer, the hitoe, is a good 5 centimeters
        wider in the sleeves (and longer in the body as well), so it clearly
        shows all around (the sleeve length here is the same as the
        itsutsuginu).

        I'd say any size difference depends on the type of garment. The hitoe
        (underneath) is the biggest; the kinu used for layering (to form the
        "heart" of the kasane) are all the same size, and any offset is
        produced from the way they are worn; and the (uchiginu and) uwagi are
        a little bit smaller. This makes sense: the outer and inner layers
        will stay where they are, but the layering kinu can be reorganized
        depending on the season.

        - Abe Akirakeiko


        On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:18 PM, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
        > To be a possible dissenting voice--I believe there is some evidence
        > for this in Jidai Ishou no Nuikata--but I am in Japan and not with my
        > sources. When I get home I will check.
        >
        > That said, the difference, if there is any, is not great as I recall,
        > and seems to be mostly in the sleeves--if I'm remembering things
        > correctly. And if anything, I believe it is the circumference of the
        > sode (with the outer garments being maybe a centimeter or so smaller),
        > but I need to check my sources.
        >
        > -Ii
      • wodeford
        Dalby, Kimono: Fashioning Culture, Chapter 7, p. 235 of my edition, facing the color plate of Ms. Dalby in karaginu mo: I had mistakenly thought that the
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 5, 2008
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          Dalby, Kimono: Fashioning Culture, Chapter 7, p. 235 of my edition,
          facing the color plate of Ms. Dalby in karaginu mo:

          "I had mistakenly thought that the robes in a set must have each been
          cut smaller in order to reveal the edge of the one beneath, but I
          discovered that the effect was created as each layer created more
          bulk, and it was the skill of the dresser that made the edges lie so
          neatly apart....."

          p. 229, see description of hitoe "cut slightly larger than the ones
          that came on top. The hitoe protruded prominently at the sleeve
          openings and hem." The uchigi description repeats the fact that it's
          the bulk of the layers that reveals the edges of the inner ones.

          p. 230, see description of Karaginu with "relatively narrow sleeves."

          See also Abe-hime's response regarding relative dimensions on the
          various garments.

          Saionji no Hanae
          West Kingdom
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