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Re: more headgear questions

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  • David
    I ve created an album in the photo section entitled Ishikawa Moritake and the photos Buntaro s hat 1&2 I ll add more of different things once I dig them
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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      I've created an album in the photo section entitled "Ishikawa
      Moritake" and the photos "Buntaro's hat 1&2" I'll add more of
      different things once I dig them out and convert them to digital.

      Ishikawa Moritake

      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
      >
      > oops. wouldn't let me attach the photos
      > will have to try later.
      > Ishikawa Moritake
      >
      >
      > David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
      these are what I'm talking about. If it is an eboshi, it looks like
      a different construction.
      >
      > Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:

      > On Dec 18, 2007, at 10:21 PM, David Nesmith wrote:
      >
      > > sorry, those still are not the one I'm referring to. The one I'm
      > > looking for is a flat square on the top. I reminds me of the cap
      we
      > > wear for graduations.
      > >
      >
      > Yes, it *is* the one. It's just folded in a particular way. There
      are
      > dozens of ways to fold them.
      >
      > Effingham
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
      blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
      >
      > test'; " type=text/css>
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood.
      Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
      >
      > test'; " type=text/css>
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Ellen Badgley
      Yes, that s an ori-eboshi, folded in a particular way. - Abe Akirakeiko
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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        Yes, that's an ori-eboshi, folded in a particular way.

        - Abe Akirakeiko

        On Dec 19, 2007 8:11 AM, David <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I've created an album in the photo section entitled "Ishikawa
        > Moritake" and the photos "Buntaro's hat 1&2" I'll add more of
        > different things once I dig them out and convert them to digital.
        >
        > Ishikawa Moritake
        >
        >
        > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > oops. wouldn't let me attach the photos
        > > will have to try later.
        > > Ishikawa Moritake
        > >
        > >
        > > David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
        > these are what I'm talking about. If it is an eboshi, it looks like
        > a different construction.
        > >
        > > Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
        >
        > > On Dec 18, 2007, at 10:21 PM, David Nesmith wrote:
        > >
        > > > sorry, those still are not the one I'm referring to. The one I'm
        > > > looking for is a flat square on the top. I reminds me of the cap
        > we
        > > > wear for graduations.
        > > >
        > >
        > > Yes, it *is* the one. It's just folded in a particular way. There
        > are
        > > dozens of ways to fold them.
        > >
        > > Effingham
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
        > blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
        > >
        > > test'; " type=text/css>
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood.
        > Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
        > >
        > > test'; " type=text/css>
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
      • Sfandra
        Is there a pathway to this PDF? The link does not work for me. Many Thanks, Sfandra Dmitrieva (just visiting from the Steppes...) ...
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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          Is there a pathway to this PDF? The link does not
          work for me.

          Many Thanks,
          Sfandra Dmitrieva
          (just visiting from the Steppes...)

          --- wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

          > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant
          > <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
          >
          > > It's just an ori-eboshi. It's one way of folding
          > them.
          >
          > Go here.
          >
          http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MIloR17-zuuf8iFliJv97kfdrBSXh2g5JOJY_RYPX1x8nkV3sh826WduYZtHx7C3ASZQy-0K8zwd4LXGvPQ7/Garb%20files/eboshi-types.PDF


          ******************
          Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
          KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
          Haus Von Drakenklaue
          Kingdom of the East
          ******************
          Never 'pearl' your butt.


          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Looking for last minute shopping deals?
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        • wodeford
          ... What is the sound of one head pounding upon a desktop. Bloody Yahoo. Go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/ Look in the folder titled Garb
          Message 4 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
            >
            > Is there a pathway to this PDF? The link does not
            > work for me.

            What is the sound of one head pounding upon a desktop. Bloody Yahoo.

            Go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/
            Look in the folder titled "Garb Files."

            Saionji no Hanae
            West Kingdom
          • Sfandra
            ... Domo arigato. --Sfandra ****************** Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir Haus Von Drakenklaue
            Message 5 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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              > Go here:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/
              > Look in the folder titled "Garb Files."
              >
              > Saionji no Hanae
              > West Kingdom
              >

              Domo arigato.

              --Sfandra

              ******************
              Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
              KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
              Haus Von Drakenklaue
              Kingdom of the East
              ******************
              Never 'pearl' your butt.


              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Looking for last minute shopping deals?
              Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
            • Sfandra
              Greetings all. I joined a couple of months ago, since I am making a hitatare sugata for a friend. I ve been learning a great deal from your discussions, and I
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                Greetings all.

                I joined a couple of months ago, since I am making a
                hitatare sugata for a friend. I've been learning a
                great deal from your discussions, and I thank you for
                that.

                I started out by making the complete outfit in
                inexpensive cotton. I'll be making it again in 100%
                linen in time for the East's "Market Day At Birka"
                event.

                The question I have is in regards to the hang of the
                hakama. I used my lord Edward of Effingham's pattern
                initially. What I found was that once my friend put
                the hakama on, there was a pull from the back, causing
                the crotch gusset (and I apologize if I offend, but as
                a seamstress, i just as soon use the easy and correct
                term) to be pulled backwards, instead of hanging
                centered and evenly. This then affected the hang of
                the front and of course pulled the line of the pleats.
                It was.... most unbecoming... ;)

                I can only guess that the way my friend is wearing the
                pants might be at fault here, since the pattern is a
                tried-and-true one. In order to adjust it, I've
                decided that I will make the back panels 2" higher at
                the waist than the front. This gives more fabric in
                the back, and *should* allow the hakama to hang
                properly.

                I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar
                experience with the pattern and had been forced to
                adjust the pattern, and if so, how did you do it? I
                am prewashing the linen tomorrow and getting started,
                so I'm open to suggestions at this point.

                Many thanks.

                Yours in Service,
                Sfandra Dmitrieva

                ******************
                Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
                Haus Von Drakenklaue
                Kingdom of the East
                ******************
                Never 'pearl' your butt.


                ____________________________________________________________________________________
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              • Solveig Throndardottir
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! At a suggestion, you might want to consider how the hakama are being put on. Also, try heavily starching your cotton and
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig! At a suggestion, you might want
                  to consider how the hakama are being put on. Also, try
                  heavily starching your cotton and folding and pressing
                  the hakama correctly before judging the "hang". Also,
                  the bottom "gusset" should be quite low by Western
                  standards.

                  I'm trying to recall whether the front and back panels of
                  hakama are properly different lengths or not. I want to
                  say that the back panel might be slightly longer. However,
                  I would have to go check out what's in the nuikata book
                  to be sure.

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                  Greetings! I have used the Baron s patterns to make Kataguni, and all I did was lower the gusset 3 inches for the pattern to fit me well, I used the same to
                  Message 8 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                    Greetings!
                    I have used the Baron's patterns to make Kataguni, and all I did was lower
                    the gusset 3 inches for the pattern to fit me well, I used the same to
                    technic on a pair I did for my lady wife and since her hips are a bit smaller than
                    mine and her trunk nice and round I also had to adjust the gusset by making
                    them a bit lower all the problems disappeared. I can't say that this is proper
                    practice but I can say it works great!

                    Humbly,
                    Nakagawa Sukeie
                    Silverhart's Chatelaine, An Tir

                    To ask a question may be a moments shame,
                    But not to ask and remain ignorant is a life long shame.



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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Solveig Throndardottir
                    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I just checked the nuikata book. There should be no difference between the lengths of the front and back panels for
                    Message 9 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                      Noble Cousin!

                      Greetings from Solveig! I just checked the nuikata book.
                      There should be no difference between the lengths of
                      the front and back panels for hakama. I suspect that
                      you have been trying to "fit" the hakama during cutting.
                      This is a mistake. Hakama (and wafuku in general)
                      should be made rather roomy and then tied to the body
                      with the attached himo. If the hakama are pulling, then
                      perhaps your customer is rather more capacious than
                      Baron Edward. You may want to uniformly scale your
                      dimensions to correct for this. Basically, wafuku should
                      if anything start out being "too big" for the wearer.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • sigrune@aol.com
                      Greetings, and Happy Holidays! ? I have found that when using the Effingham pattern that the size listed for the gusset is a bit on the small side unless you
                      Message 10 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                        Greetings, and Happy Holidays!


                        ?


                        I have found that when using the Effingham pattern that the size listed for the gusset is a bit on the small side unless you are using small seam allowences, which personally I can only get away with by hand stiching them.?


                        ?


                        If you have a bunching effect or wedgie factor happening here are a couple of the solutions I use:


                        ?


                        Increase the size of the gusset, you may have lost too much between allowing for seams and finishing the edges of the fabric. Think about it if you use a 6X6?gusset, and loose about 1 inch in seam allowances,? you are now working with a 4X4, which leaves about 5 inches of total extra area, or look at it this way, about 2.5 inches of extra inseam...? not a whole lot.


                        ?


                        Lower the gusset, the points of the gusset (depending on the size of it) should be nearly to the knees. Remember on an 8 inch finished/installed gusset for hakama, the crease (crotch) will be approximately 4 inches above the lowest point of the gusset.? On me that puts it at just below mid thigh, which is just about right.


                        ?


                        Go old school, forget the gusset,?put in the center piece like on oyoroi hitatare and not sew the legs completely shut.?I personally perfer this method for my fighting hakama, it makes it much easier to deal with all that water and gatoraid the waterbearers make ya drink when fighting.


                        ?


                        -Takeda


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                      • sigrune@aol.com
                        Unless hakama are for someone with extreemely strange body proportions, everything should scale up or down and fit fine. ? An easy way to tell if the gusset is
                        Message 11 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                          Unless hakama are for someone with extreemely strange body proportions, everything should scale up or down and fit fine.


                          ?


                          An easy way to tell if the gusset is too high, as opposed to simply too small to work properly; is to simply have them try them on and tie them lower on the waist.? A great number of people tend wear?hakama tied too high.?


                          ?


                          I myself wore them two high until I started wearing proper attire with swords.? The himo should be right about (or just over)?the hip bones (think hip hugger). If you wear them tied up near the waist they do not stay tightly bound, and your swords tend to pull your drawers down, or even worse you have to bind it so tight breathing becomes a problem.


                          ?


                          If the bunching or wedgie factor dissapears when they wear them lower, either have them wear them that way, or if they are realy too low, move the gusset down.


                          ?


                          -Takeda


                          ?


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                        • Sfandra
                          ... I think this is the issue. My friend seemed to hike the back up, after tying the front on first, thus tying the back on a little higher than the front.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                            --- Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:

                            > At a suggestion, you might
                            > want to consider how the hakama are being put on.

                            I think this is the issue. My friend seemed to "hike"
                            the back up, after tying the front on first, thus
                            tying the back on a little higher than the front.
                            This seems to be the cause of the pull. We're not
                            talking wedgie here -- the gusset was a finished size
                            of 6.5" square and at the knee. Actually, when he
                            stood straight, the hakama was fine. It was in
                            movement you could see the pull.

                            > try
                            > heavily starching your cotton and folding and
                            > pressing
                            > the hakama correctly before judging the "hang".

                            Oh yeah. Did that. And left in basting stitches for
                            2 weeks.

                            I think I have a situation where I have to tweak to
                            meet the way he wears it. Alas, he did specifically
                            request a finished/enclosed inseam. I offered to make
                            them 'open' with overlapping pieces for "access", but
                            he declined. :D

                            Many Thanks,
                            Sfandra



                            ******************
                            Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                            KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
                            Haus Von Drakenklaue
                            Kingdom of the East
                            ******************
                            Never 'pearl' your butt.


                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                            Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                          • Solveig Throndardottir
                            Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Japanese clothing should properly be sewn with what looks a lot like a basting stitch. The individual stitches can be
                            Message 13 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                              Noble Cousins!

                              Greetings from Solveig! Japanese clothing should properly be sewn
                              with what
                              looks a lot like a basting stitch. The individual stitches can be
                              fairly long and
                              in some cases may even appear loose. One important thing to do is to
                              avoid
                              any bunching at the seams. This sort of stitch accomplishes this
                              effect. Also,
                              recall that traditionally, Japanese clothing was disassembled for
                              cleaning.

                              Your Humble Servant
                              Solveig Throndardottir
                              Amateur Scholar





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Solveig Throndardottir
                              Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! There is a good chance that your friend is not walking correctly. There are several Japanese walks all of them pretty
                              Message 14 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                Noble Cousin!

                                Greetings from Solveig! There is a good chance that your
                                friend is not walking correctly. There are several Japanese
                                walks all of them pretty much distinct from the way that
                                North Americans walk.

                                Your Humble Servant
                                Solveig Throndardottir
                                Amateur Scholar





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                                Greetings! I ll have to agree with Takeda, if you make the inner leg cut a bit dipper and the gusset larger that also helps a great deal, I had a problem with
                                Message 15 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                  Greetings!
                                  I'll have to agree with Takeda, if you make the inner leg cut a bit dipper
                                  and the gusset larger that also helps a great deal, I had a problem with the
                                  first pair I made, and by making these simple adjustment I wear nice and
                                  confee Kataguni.

                                  Humbly,
                                  Nakagawa Sukeie
                                  SIlverhart's Chatelaine

                                  To ask a question may be a moments shame,
                                  but not to ask and remain ignorant is a life long shame.



                                  **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                                  Great point! I normally walk like a Neanthertal, but when wearing japanese attire, I moderate my walking to a more gentle shorter walk. Humbly, Nakagawa To
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                    Great point! I normally walk like a Neanthertal, but when wearing japanese
                                    attire, I moderate my walking to a more "gentle" shorter walk.

                                    Humbly,
                                    Nakagawa

                                    To ask a question, may be a moments shame,
                                    but not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.



                                    **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
                                    (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James Eckman
                                    ... Modern Japanese walk far more openly than they used to as well, though us NA types are even more so compared to Europeans or Japanese. I recently saw a
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 29, 2007
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                                      > Posted by: "Solveig Throndardottir"
                                      >
                                      > Noble Cousin!
                                      >
                                      > Greetings from Solveig! There is a good chance that your
                                      > friend is not walking correctly. There are several Japanese
                                      > walks all of them pretty much distinct from the way that
                                      > North Americans walk.

                                      Modern Japanese walk far more openly than they used to as well, though
                                      us NA types are even more so compared to Europeans or Japanese. I
                                      recently saw a fashion show on NHK where they were teaching the proper
                                      ways a walking in wafuku including how to climb stairs, enter cars and
                                      such. Not trivial!

                                      Another fun example, in "The Hidden Blade" they were also trying to
                                      train samurai in the western way of running and marching. Quite amusing.

                                      Jim Eckman
                                    • wodeford
                                      ... Small steps small steps small steps small steps small steps.... Saionji no Hanae West
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Dec 29, 2007
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                                        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, James Eckman <ronin_engineer@...> wrote:
                                        > Modern Japanese walk far more openly than they used to as well, though
                                        > us NA types are even more so compared to Europeans or Japanese. I
                                        > recently saw a fashion show on NHK where they were teaching the proper
                                        > ways a walking in wafuku including how to climb stairs, enter cars and
                                        > such. Not trivial!

                                        "Small steps small steps small steps small steps small steps...."

                                        Saionji no Hanae
                                        West
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