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Re: more headgear questions

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  • wodeford
    ... Yahoo will strip your attachments from any messages. You can upload photos to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/ if you wish. Saionji no Hanae
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 18, 2007
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      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
      >
      > oops. wouldn't let me attach the photos
      > will have to try later.
      > Ishikawa Moritake

      Yahoo will strip your attachments from any messages. You can upload
      photos to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/ if you wish.

      Saionji no Hanae
      West
    • David
      I ve created an album in the photo section entitled Ishikawa Moritake and the photos Buntaro s hat 1&2 I ll add more of different things once I dig them
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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        I've created an album in the photo section entitled "Ishikawa
        Moritake" and the photos "Buntaro's hat 1&2" I'll add more of
        different things once I dig them out and convert them to digital.

        Ishikawa Moritake

        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
        >
        > oops. wouldn't let me attach the photos
        > will have to try later.
        > Ishikawa Moritake
        >
        >
        > David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
        these are what I'm talking about. If it is an eboshi, it looks like
        a different construction.
        >
        > Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:

        > On Dec 18, 2007, at 10:21 PM, David Nesmith wrote:
        >
        > > sorry, those still are not the one I'm referring to. The one I'm
        > > looking for is a flat square on the top. I reminds me of the cap
        we
        > > wear for graduations.
        > >
        >
        > Yes, it *is* the one. It's just folded in a particular way. There
        are
        > dozens of ways to fold them.
        >
        > Effingham
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
        blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
        >
        > test'; " type=text/css>
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood.
        Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
        >
        > test'; " type=text/css>
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Ellen Badgley
        Yes, that s an ori-eboshi, folded in a particular way. - Abe Akirakeiko
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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          Yes, that's an ori-eboshi, folded in a particular way.

          - Abe Akirakeiko

          On Dec 19, 2007 8:11 AM, David <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I've created an album in the photo section entitled "Ishikawa
          > Moritake" and the photos "Buntaro's hat 1&2" I'll add more of
          > different things once I dig them out and convert them to digital.
          >
          > Ishikawa Moritake
          >
          >
          > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > oops. wouldn't let me attach the photos
          > > will have to try later.
          > > Ishikawa Moritake
          > >
          > >
          > > David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
          > these are what I'm talking about. If it is an eboshi, it looks like
          > a different construction.
          > >
          > > Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
          >
          > > On Dec 18, 2007, at 10:21 PM, David Nesmith wrote:
          > >
          > > > sorry, those still are not the one I'm referring to. The one I'm
          > > > looking for is a flat square on the top. I reminds me of the cap
          > we
          > > > wear for graduations.
          > > >
          > >
          > > Yes, it *is* the one. It's just folded in a particular way. There
          > are
          > > dozens of ways to fold them.
          > >
          > > Effingham
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
          > blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
          > >
          > > test'; " type=text/css>
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood.
          > Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
          > >
          > > test'; " type=text/css>
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
        • Sfandra
          Is there a pathway to this PDF? The link does not work for me. Many Thanks, Sfandra Dmitrieva (just visiting from the Steppes...) ...
          Message 4 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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            Is there a pathway to this PDF? The link does not
            work for me.

            Many Thanks,
            Sfandra Dmitrieva
            (just visiting from the Steppes...)

            --- wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

            > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant
            > <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
            >
            > > It's just an ori-eboshi. It's one way of folding
            > them.
            >
            > Go here.
            >
            http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MIloR17-zuuf8iFliJv97kfdrBSXh2g5JOJY_RYPX1x8nkV3sh826WduYZtHx7C3ASZQy-0K8zwd4LXGvPQ7/Garb%20files/eboshi-types.PDF


            ******************
            Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
            KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
            Haus Von Drakenklaue
            Kingdom of the East
            ******************
            Never 'pearl' your butt.


            ____________________________________________________________________________________
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          • wodeford
            ... What is the sound of one head pounding upon a desktop. Bloody Yahoo. Go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/ Look in the folder titled Garb
            Message 5 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
              >
              > Is there a pathway to this PDF? The link does not
              > work for me.

              What is the sound of one head pounding upon a desktop. Bloody Yahoo.

              Go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/
              Look in the folder titled "Garb Files."

              Saionji no Hanae
              West Kingdom
            • Sfandra
              ... Domo arigato. --Sfandra ****************** Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir Haus Von Drakenklaue
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 19, 2007
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                > Go here:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/
                > Look in the folder titled "Garb Files."
                >
                > Saionji no Hanae
                > West Kingdom
                >

                Domo arigato.

                --Sfandra

                ******************
                Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
                Haus Von Drakenklaue
                Kingdom of the East
                ******************
                Never 'pearl' your butt.


                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
              • Sfandra
                Greetings all. I joined a couple of months ago, since I am making a hitatare sugata for a friend. I ve been learning a great deal from your discussions, and I
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                  Greetings all.

                  I joined a couple of months ago, since I am making a
                  hitatare sugata for a friend. I've been learning a
                  great deal from your discussions, and I thank you for
                  that.

                  I started out by making the complete outfit in
                  inexpensive cotton. I'll be making it again in 100%
                  linen in time for the East's "Market Day At Birka"
                  event.

                  The question I have is in regards to the hang of the
                  hakama. I used my lord Edward of Effingham's pattern
                  initially. What I found was that once my friend put
                  the hakama on, there was a pull from the back, causing
                  the crotch gusset (and I apologize if I offend, but as
                  a seamstress, i just as soon use the easy and correct
                  term) to be pulled backwards, instead of hanging
                  centered and evenly. This then affected the hang of
                  the front and of course pulled the line of the pleats.
                  It was.... most unbecoming... ;)

                  I can only guess that the way my friend is wearing the
                  pants might be at fault here, since the pattern is a
                  tried-and-true one. In order to adjust it, I've
                  decided that I will make the back panels 2" higher at
                  the waist than the front. This gives more fabric in
                  the back, and *should* allow the hakama to hang
                  properly.

                  I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar
                  experience with the pattern and had been forced to
                  adjust the pattern, and if so, how did you do it? I
                  am prewashing the linen tomorrow and getting started,
                  so I'm open to suggestions at this point.

                  Many thanks.

                  Yours in Service,
                  Sfandra Dmitrieva

                  ******************
                  Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                  KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
                  Haus Von Drakenklaue
                  Kingdom of the East
                  ******************
                  Never 'pearl' your butt.


                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Be a better friend, newshound, and
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                • Solveig Throndardottir
                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! At a suggestion, you might want to consider how the hakama are being put on. Also, try heavily starching your cotton and
                  Message 8 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig! At a suggestion, you might want
                    to consider how the hakama are being put on. Also, try
                    heavily starching your cotton and folding and pressing
                    the hakama correctly before judging the "hang". Also,
                    the bottom "gusset" should be quite low by Western
                    standards.

                    I'm trying to recall whether the front and back panels of
                    hakama are properly different lengths or not. I want to
                    say that the back panel might be slightly longer. However,
                    I would have to go check out what's in the nuikata book
                    to be sure.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                    Greetings! I have used the Baron s patterns to make Kataguni, and all I did was lower the gusset 3 inches for the pattern to fit me well, I used the same to
                    Message 9 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                      Greetings!
                      I have used the Baron's patterns to make Kataguni, and all I did was lower
                      the gusset 3 inches for the pattern to fit me well, I used the same to
                      technic on a pair I did for my lady wife and since her hips are a bit smaller than
                      mine and her trunk nice and round I also had to adjust the gusset by making
                      them a bit lower all the problems disappeared. I can't say that this is proper
                      practice but I can say it works great!

                      Humbly,
                      Nakagawa Sukeie
                      Silverhart's Chatelaine, An Tir

                      To ask a question may be a moments shame,
                      But not to ask and remain ignorant is a life long shame.



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                    • Solveig Throndardottir
                      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I just checked the nuikata book. There should be no difference between the lengths of the front and back panels for
                      Message 10 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                        Noble Cousin!

                        Greetings from Solveig! I just checked the nuikata book.
                        There should be no difference between the lengths of
                        the front and back panels for hakama. I suspect that
                        you have been trying to "fit" the hakama during cutting.
                        This is a mistake. Hakama (and wafuku in general)
                        should be made rather roomy and then tied to the body
                        with the attached himo. If the hakama are pulling, then
                        perhaps your customer is rather more capacious than
                        Baron Edward. You may want to uniformly scale your
                        dimensions to correct for this. Basically, wafuku should
                        if anything start out being "too big" for the wearer.

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • sigrune@aol.com
                        Greetings, and Happy Holidays! ? I have found that when using the Effingham pattern that the size listed for the gusset is a bit on the small side unless you
                        Message 11 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                          Greetings, and Happy Holidays!


                          ?


                          I have found that when using the Effingham pattern that the size listed for the gusset is a bit on the small side unless you are using small seam allowences, which personally I can only get away with by hand stiching them.?


                          ?


                          If you have a bunching effect or wedgie factor happening here are a couple of the solutions I use:


                          ?


                          Increase the size of the gusset, you may have lost too much between allowing for seams and finishing the edges of the fabric. Think about it if you use a 6X6?gusset, and loose about 1 inch in seam allowances,? you are now working with a 4X4, which leaves about 5 inches of total extra area, or look at it this way, about 2.5 inches of extra inseam...? not a whole lot.


                          ?


                          Lower the gusset, the points of the gusset (depending on the size of it) should be nearly to the knees. Remember on an 8 inch finished/installed gusset for hakama, the crease (crotch) will be approximately 4 inches above the lowest point of the gusset.? On me that puts it at just below mid thigh, which is just about right.


                          ?


                          Go old school, forget the gusset,?put in the center piece like on oyoroi hitatare and not sew the legs completely shut.?I personally perfer this method for my fighting hakama, it makes it much easier to deal with all that water and gatoraid the waterbearers make ya drink when fighting.


                          ?


                          -Takeda


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                        • sigrune@aol.com
                          Unless hakama are for someone with extreemely strange body proportions, everything should scale up or down and fit fine. ? An easy way to tell if the gusset is
                          Message 12 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                            Unless hakama are for someone with extreemely strange body proportions, everything should scale up or down and fit fine.


                            ?


                            An easy way to tell if the gusset is too high, as opposed to simply too small to work properly; is to simply have them try them on and tie them lower on the waist.? A great number of people tend wear?hakama tied too high.?


                            ?


                            I myself wore them two high until I started wearing proper attire with swords.? The himo should be right about (or just over)?the hip bones (think hip hugger). If you wear them tied up near the waist they do not stay tightly bound, and your swords tend to pull your drawers down, or even worse you have to bind it so tight breathing becomes a problem.


                            ?


                            If the bunching or wedgie factor dissapears when they wear them lower, either have them wear them that way, or if they are realy too low, move the gusset down.


                            ?


                            -Takeda


                            ?


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                          • Sfandra
                            ... I think this is the issue. My friend seemed to hike the back up, after tying the front on first, thus tying the back on a little higher than the front.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                              --- Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:

                              > At a suggestion, you might
                              > want to consider how the hakama are being put on.

                              I think this is the issue. My friend seemed to "hike"
                              the back up, after tying the front on first, thus
                              tying the back on a little higher than the front.
                              This seems to be the cause of the pull. We're not
                              talking wedgie here -- the gusset was a finished size
                              of 6.5" square and at the knee. Actually, when he
                              stood straight, the hakama was fine. It was in
                              movement you could see the pull.

                              > try
                              > heavily starching your cotton and folding and
                              > pressing
                              > the hakama correctly before judging the "hang".

                              Oh yeah. Did that. And left in basting stitches for
                              2 weeks.

                              I think I have a situation where I have to tweak to
                              meet the way he wears it. Alas, he did specifically
                              request a finished/enclosed inseam. I offered to make
                              them 'open' with overlapping pieces for "access", but
                              he declined. :D

                              Many Thanks,
                              Sfandra



                              ******************
                              Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                              KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
                              Haus Von Drakenklaue
                              Kingdom of the East
                              ******************
                              Never 'pearl' your butt.


                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                              Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                            • Solveig Throndardottir
                              Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Japanese clothing should properly be sewn with what looks a lot like a basting stitch. The individual stitches can be
                              Message 14 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                Noble Cousins!

                                Greetings from Solveig! Japanese clothing should properly be sewn
                                with what
                                looks a lot like a basting stitch. The individual stitches can be
                                fairly long and
                                in some cases may even appear loose. One important thing to do is to
                                avoid
                                any bunching at the seams. This sort of stitch accomplishes this
                                effect. Also,
                                recall that traditionally, Japanese clothing was disassembled for
                                cleaning.

                                Your Humble Servant
                                Solveig Throndardottir
                                Amateur Scholar





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Solveig Throndardottir
                                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! There is a good chance that your friend is not walking correctly. There are several Japanese walks all of them pretty
                                Message 15 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                  Noble Cousin!

                                  Greetings from Solveig! There is a good chance that your
                                  friend is not walking correctly. There are several Japanese
                                  walks all of them pretty much distinct from the way that
                                  North Americans walk.

                                  Your Humble Servant
                                  Solveig Throndardottir
                                  Amateur Scholar





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                                  Greetings! I ll have to agree with Takeda, if you make the inner leg cut a bit dipper and the gusset larger that also helps a great deal, I had a problem with
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                    Greetings!
                                    I'll have to agree with Takeda, if you make the inner leg cut a bit dipper
                                    and the gusset larger that also helps a great deal, I had a problem with the
                                    first pair I made, and by making these simple adjustment I wear nice and
                                    confee Kataguni.

                                    Humbly,
                                    Nakagawa Sukeie
                                    SIlverhart's Chatelaine

                                    To ask a question may be a moments shame,
                                    but not to ask and remain ignorant is a life long shame.



                                    **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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                                  • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                                    Great point! I normally walk like a Neanthertal, but when wearing japanese attire, I moderate my walking to a more gentle shorter walk. Humbly, Nakagawa To
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                      Great point! I normally walk like a Neanthertal, but when wearing japanese
                                      attire, I moderate my walking to a more "gentle" shorter walk.

                                      Humbly,
                                      Nakagawa

                                      To ask a question, may be a moments shame,
                                      but not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.



                                      **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
                                      (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


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                                    • James Eckman
                                      ... Modern Japanese walk far more openly than they used to as well, though us NA types are even more so compared to Europeans or Japanese. I recently saw a
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Dec 29, 2007
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                                        > Posted by: "Solveig Throndardottir"
                                        >
                                        > Noble Cousin!
                                        >
                                        > Greetings from Solveig! There is a good chance that your
                                        > friend is not walking correctly. There are several Japanese
                                        > walks all of them pretty much distinct from the way that
                                        > North Americans walk.

                                        Modern Japanese walk far more openly than they used to as well, though
                                        us NA types are even more so compared to Europeans or Japanese. I
                                        recently saw a fashion show on NHK where they were teaching the proper
                                        ways a walking in wafuku including how to climb stairs, enter cars and
                                        such. Not trivial!

                                        Another fun example, in "The Hidden Blade" they were also trying to
                                        train samurai in the western way of running and marching. Quite amusing.

                                        Jim Eckman
                                      • wodeford
                                        ... Small steps small steps small steps small steps small steps.... Saionji no Hanae West
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Dec 29, 2007
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                                          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, James Eckman <ronin_engineer@...> wrote:
                                          > Modern Japanese walk far more openly than they used to as well, though
                                          > us NA types are even more so compared to Europeans or Japanese. I
                                          > recently saw a fashion show on NHK where they were teaching the proper
                                          > ways a walking in wafuku including how to climb stairs, enter cars and
                                          > such. Not trivial!

                                          "Small steps small steps small steps small steps small steps...."

                                          Saionji no Hanae
                                          West
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