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A bunch of n00b questions

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  • jyrkele
    Greetings, noble people having searched the net for information on japanese clothing I eventually ended up to this site At this point, thanks for everyone who
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 31, 2007
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      Greetings, noble people
      having searched the net for information on japanese clothing I
      eventually ended up to this site
      At this point, thanks for everyone who has posted stuff on this site,
      and especially Effingham-Dono.

      Because of my curiositiy and too many hours spent on various japanese
      garb sites, my knowledge of japanese clothing is greater than that of
      general knowledge about sca (which is quite limited. Thoigh I'm
      planning to start heavy fighting) so forgive me being perhaps confused
      about some things. Although my local group will be the onse to bear
      with that...

      However, the questions
      First, would a Haori/Dôbuku made somtehing like this be even plausibly
      period?
      http://www.kinokuniya.info/english/size_haori.jpg
      On Dôbuku, I've only found this picture for reference
      http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/graphics/garbphotos/dobuku1L.jpg
      Would it be periodish to make straight sleeves half open from the
      armpit (youknowhatImean) otherwise following the pictures posted?

      For a lower middle-class-ish-not-so-rich -bushi would it be a
      plausible leisure/common daywear outfit to have a hakama,
      underwear-kosode, and another kosode (of darker colour)
      In my opinion it would be authentic enough, as my purse couldn't take
      all too much further clothing at this point...My final aim is a Dôbuku
      sugata, with a black hakama, gray over-kosode (under-kosode white,
      naturally) and a dark blue dôbuku

      Just some thoughts of mine. Thanks already for responses
    • wodeford
      ... The quick and dirty answer, haori are not period, dobuku are. Please check out this recent thread over on the Tousando forum:
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 1, 2007
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        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "jyrkele" <erkki_salo1990@...> wrote:
        > However, the questions
        > First, would a Haori/Dôbuku made somtehing like this be even plausibly
        > period?

        The quick and dirty answer, haori are not period, dobuku are. Please
        check out this recent thread over on the Tousando forum:
        http://tousando.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=garb&action=display&thread=1193507811&page=1

        It includes links to a couple of 16th century dobuku in museum
        collections, showing some sleeve variants.

        Haori (and modern kimono) ALWAYS have square sleeves closed part way
        up the front. Period kosode have sleeves with curved edges closed part
        way up the front. Period dofuku can have open fronted square sleeves
        or rounded sleeves like period kosode.

        Men's sleeves for dobuku tend to be attached to the body of the
        garment. Kosode sleeves for men should be sewn part way up the back -
        that way you can use 'em as pockets. (Open backed, "swinging" sleeves
        are traditionally for ladies.)

        > For a lower middle-class-ish-not-so-rich -bushi would it be a
        > plausible leisure/common daywear outfit to have a hakama,
        > underwear-kosode, and another kosode (of darker colour)
        Yes. Make your "underwear" layer out of something washable, especially
        if you plan on working in silk for outer layers.

        Good luck!

        Saionji no Hanae
        West Kingdom
      • jyrkele
        ... back - ... that was something I didn t completely understand. Did you refer to the openings of the sleeves where they are rounded up and sewn closed for a
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 2, 2007
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          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "wodeford" <wodeford@...> wrote:

          > Men's sleeves for dobuku tend to be attached to the body of the
          > garment. Kosode sleeves for men should be sewn part way up the
          back -
          > that way you can use 'em as pockets.

          that was something I didn't completely understand. Did you refer to
          the openings of the sleeves where they are rounded up and sewn closed
          for a bit (and at this point, how long a distance should it be sewn
          closed? This was something i hadn't found out se it's compeletely new
          to me)
          Or are the sleeves also sewed closed to themselves where they meet
          the body of the garment

          I am not accustomed to discussing clothes and sewing in english so
          excuse me, please...

          And thanks a lot, I didn't know why the sode were rounded before. And
          also for the link to the tousendo forums, hadnt noticed before.

          Another thing I was wondering were the lenghts of fabric. At least
          here in Finland fabric is often sold in widths of 59-57 inches. Yes,
          it is just a matter of cutting, however...

          Here http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/Jap123s.html it is
          stated that the "standard width" of panels is 16,5 inches. Measuring
          myself, this width (+ seam allowance) would end upabout an inch over
          my wrist. That is not any kind of a problem, and "standard sizes
          rule", but at Nihon Katchû Seisakuben, Effingham-dono reminds us of
          the problem of scale: The period armours seem to us to be made for
          children
          So I came to wonder wether this has been taken to account in the
          measurements?

          In tihs picture
          http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/graphics/garbphotos/dobuku_sugata.jp
          g The left-most ones dobuku clearly surpasses his wrists. The other
          onse with sleeveless bobukus seem to have shorter sleeves, about as
          long as those measurements would be for me. But again it hasn't been
          said that dobuku would have the same width of panel...

          Sumimasen. just confused
          Better to be sure before you begin cutting the fabric...
        • wodeford
          ... On men s sleeves, the back of the sleeve (closest to the side of the body) is also sewn up part way. ... You re doing fine. If something is not clear,
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 2, 2007
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            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "jyrkele" <erkki_salo1990@...> wrote:
            > Or are the sleeves also sewed closed to themselves where they meet
            > the body of the garment.

            On men's sleeves, the back of the sleeve (closest to the side of the
            body) is also sewn up part way.

            > I am not accustomed to discussing clothes and sewing in english so
            > excuse me, please...
            You're doing fine. If something is not clear, please feel free to ask
            and I'll try to keep it simple.

            > Another thing I was wondering were the lenghts of fabric. At least
            > here in Finland fabric is often sold in widths of 59-57 inches. Yes,
            > it is just a matter of cutting, however...

            Scale is frequently an issue for those of us who are not built like
            medieval Japanese. Please take a look at my web page at
            http://www.wodefordhall.com/kosode.htm as I have instructions on how
            to measure yourself and calculate a panel width to accomodate the
            scale of your own body. Look for a sketch of a figure in kosode with
            arms stretched out like wings.

            I hope this is helpful.

            Saionji no Hanae
            West Kingdom
          • jyrkele
            ... Couldn t get enymore helpful. Many thanks. Prehaps the best instructions on making a kosode I have yet seen The only pretext for posting this message is my
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 4, 2007
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "wodeford" <wodeford@...> wrote:
              >
              > I hope this is helpful.

              Couldn't get enymore helpful. Many thanks. Prehaps the best
              instructions on making a kosode I have yet seen
              The only pretext for posting this message is my huge gratitude.
              big amounts of linen incoming, later to be japanese garb.
              Funny, if these will be my first garb to be used in SCA...

              Until I get to post pics, and arigatoo again
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