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Haidate construction question

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  • mordici26
    Ladys and Gentlemen, My name is Jeffery Hawkins. I live in Beaumont, TX and am only one of too few Japanese persona in my local group: Bordermarch. I am
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 28, 2007
      Ladys and Gentlemen,

      My name is Jeffery Hawkins. I live in Beaumont, TX and am only one
      of too few Japanese persona in my local group: Bordermarch.

      I am currently working on armor for heavy fighting and have come to a
      wall. And while unlikely, I hold my hopes that I can complete the
      armor in time for our Autumn Melees in November.Any help would be
      greatly appreciated.

      With Iyo Haidate, each "scale" is laced to the next, horizontally.

      Are the horizontal rows of scales laced to the next row or is each
      horizontal row separately sewn to the fabric base? If each row is
      sewn separately, how is this done? Are they stitched down completely
      or sewn only along the top, allowing them the slide over/under the
      surrounding rows if the haidate is "bunched"?

      So that no time is wasted, I've researched this a good deal through
      various media including Clan Yama Kaminari's excellent site and
      Sengoku Daimyo which is the most informationally jam-packed japanese
      online resource that I have seen.

      The haidate is explained at great length on the formerly mentioned
      site, but I am sadly a 90% visual learner and the pictures that I've
      found are just not enough. The text explanations, due nly to my
      intellectual shortfalls, confuse me a great deal.

      Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.

      Sincerely,
      Jeffery Hawkins

      PS. Please forgive my unsightly rambling...
    • David Nesmith
      There are several different styles of haidate. Most have the vertical and horizontal scales connected to make a semi rigid panel. Some are stitched to a
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 28, 2007
        There are several different styles of haidate. Most have the vertical and horizontal scales connected to make a semi rigid panel. Some are stitched to a backing piece while others are linked with chain mail and then sewn to the backing piece. There are also examples of hexagonal plates linked with chain mail or sewn into a brigandine. The haidate does not follow the same style as the rest of the yoroi. This is because the haidate was used primarily on horseback to protect the legs and most samurai removed them when on foot for more maneuverability.

        your in service,
        Ishikawa Moritake

        p.s. Bordermarch you say? Ask them if they remember a tall young man who wore a suit of light blue armor many years ago... heh heh... that was MY first suit, sold to him but unbeknownst to him, it seemed my reputation came with it... LOL
        Ishikawa


        mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote: Ladys and Gentlemen,

        My name is Jeffery Hawkins. I live in Beaumont, TX and am only one
        of too few Japanese persona in my local group: Bordermarch.

        I am currently working on armor for heavy fighting and have come to a
        wall. And while unlikely, I hold my hopes that I can complete the
        armor in time for our Autumn Melees in November.Any help would be
        greatly appreciated.

        With Iyo Haidate, each "scale" is laced to the next, horizontally.

        Are the horizontal rows of scales laced to the next row or is each
        horizontal row separately sewn to the fabric base? If each row is
        sewn separately, how is this done? Are they stitched down completely
        or sewn only along the top, allowing them the slide over/under the
        surrounding rows if the haidate is "bunched"?

        So that no time is wasted, I've researched this a good deal through
        various media including Clan Yama Kaminari's excellent site and
        Sengoku Daimyo which is the most informationally jam-packed japanese
        online resource that I have seen.

        The haidate is explained at great length on the formerly mentioned
        site, but I am sadly a 90% visual learner and the pictures that I've
        found are just not enough. The text explanations, due nly to my
        intellectual shortfalls, confuse me a great deal.

        Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.

        Sincerely,
        Jeffery Hawkins

        PS. Please forgive my unsightly rambling...






        It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!

        test'; " type=text/css>


        ---------------------------------
        Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mordici26
        http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/kawara.PDF?55,3 The graphic/pattern at the bottom of this link/page is what I am looking to do. Thank
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 29, 2007
          http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/kawara.PDF?55,3

          The graphic/pattern at the bottom of this link/page is what I am
          looking to do.

          Thank You,
          Jeffery Hawkins

          PS Young, tall man; light blue armor. I may need more detail than
          this as there is an actual group that wears blue armor (mostly barrel
          plastic, I believe), who's name involvles the term "Smurf".





          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
          >
          > There are several different styles of haidate. Most have the
          vertical and horizontal scales connected to make a semi rigid
          panel. Some are stitched to a backing piece while others are linked
          with chain mail and then sewn to the backing piece. There are also
          examples of hexagonal plates linked with chain mail or sewn into a
          brigandine. The haidate does not follow the same style as the rest
          of the yoroi. This is because the haidate was used primarily on
          horseback to protect the legs and most samurai removed them when on
          foot for more maneuverability.
          >
          > your in service,
          > Ishikawa Moritake
          >
          > p.s. Bordermarch you say? Ask them if they remember a tall young
          man who wore a suit of light blue armor many years ago... heh heh...
          that was MY first suit, sold to him but unbeknownst to him, it seemed
          my reputation came with it... LOL
          > Ishikawa
          >
          >
          > mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote:
          Ladys and Gentlemen,
          >
          > My name is Jeffery Hawkins. I live in Beaumont, TX and am only
          one
          > of too few Japanese persona in my local group: Bordermarch.
          >
          > I am currently working on armor for heavy fighting and have come
          to a
          > wall. And while unlikely, I hold my hopes that I can complete the
          > armor in time for our Autumn Melees in November.Any help would be
          > greatly appreciated.
          >
          > With Iyo Haidate, each "scale" is laced to the next, horizontally.
          >
          > Are the horizontal rows of scales laced to the next row or is each
          > horizontal row separately sewn to the fabric base? If each row is
          > sewn separately, how is this done? Are they stitched down
          completely
          > or sewn only along the top, allowing them the slide over/under the
          > surrounding rows if the haidate is "bunched"?
          >
          > So that no time is wasted, I've researched this a good deal
          through
          > various media including Clan Yama Kaminari's excellent site and
          > Sengoku Daimyo which is the most informationally jam-packed
          japanese
          > online resource that I have seen.
          >
          > The haidate is explained at great length on the formerly mentioned
          > site, but I am sadly a 90% visual learner and the pictures that
          I've
          > found are just not enough. The text explanations, due nly to my
          > intellectual shortfalls, confuse me a great deal.
          >
          > Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.
          >
          > Sincerely,
          > Jeffery Hawkins
          >
          > PS. Please forgive my unsightly rambling...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
          blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
          >
          > test'; " type=text/css>
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • David Nesmith
          circa 1985 I sold my black & silver basket weave armor with red ito including the red kote haramaki under armer and the ORIGINAL Jap Vader helm to a young man
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 29, 2007
            circa 1985 I sold my black & silver basket weave armor with red ito including the red kote haramaki under armer and the ORIGINAL Jap Vader helm to a young man from Bordermarch who was about my size. Tall and slender. His problem was that he was a new fighter and I had aquired quite a reputation on the field. Needless to say, everyone thought it was me in that armor! Can you say, "beat into the ground like a tent stake?" So, to save his young hide, he painted the entire armor blue. Don't know why he chose light blue, but at least it wasn't Jap Vader!

            kampai!
            Ishikawa Moritake (aka Moritomo)


            mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/kawara.PDF?55,3

            The graphic/pattern at the bottom of this link/page is what I am
            looking to do.

            Thank You,
            Jeffery Hawkins

            PS Young, tall man; light blue armor. I may need more detail than
            this as there is an actual group that wears blue armor (mostly barrel
            plastic, I believe), who's name involvles the term "Smurf".

            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
            >
            > There are several different styles of haidate. Most have the
            vertical and horizontal scales connected to make a semi rigid
            panel. Some are stitched to a backing piece while others are linked
            with chain mail and then sewn to the backing piece. There are also
            examples of hexagonal plates linked with chain mail or sewn into a
            brigandine. The haidate does not follow the same style as the rest
            of the yoroi. This is because the haidate was used primarily on
            horseback to protect the legs and most samurai removed them when on
            foot for more maneuverability.
            >
            > your in service,
            > Ishikawa Moritake
            >
            > p.s. Bordermarch you say? Ask them if they remember a tall young
            man who wore a suit of light blue armor many years ago... heh heh...
            that was MY first suit, sold to him but unbeknownst to him, it seemed
            my reputation came with it... LOL
            > Ishikawa
            >
            >
            > mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote:
            Ladys and Gentlemen,
            >
            > My name is Jeffery Hawkins. I live in Beaumont, TX and am only
            one
            > of too few Japanese persona in my local group: Bordermarch.
            >
            > I am currently working on armor for heavy fighting and have come
            to a
            > wall. And while unlikely, I hold my hopes that I can complete the
            > armor in time for our Autumn Melees in November.Any help would be
            > greatly appreciated.
            >
            > With Iyo Haidate, each "scale" is laced to the next, horizontally.
            >
            > Are the horizontal rows of scales laced to the next row or is each
            > horizontal row separately sewn to the fabric base? If each row is
            > sewn separately, how is this done? Are they stitched down
            completely
            > or sewn only along the top, allowing them the slide over/under the
            > surrounding rows if the haidate is "bunched"?
            >
            > So that no time is wasted, I've researched this a good deal
            through
            > various media including Clan Yama Kaminari's excellent site and
            > Sengoku Daimyo which is the most informationally jam-packed
            japanese
            > online resource that I have seen.
            >
            > The haidate is explained at great length on the formerly mentioned
            > site, but I am sadly a 90% visual learner and the pictures that
            I've
            > found are just not enough. The text explanations, due nly to my
            > intellectual shortfalls, confuse me a great deal.
            >
            > Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.
            >
            > Sincerely,
            > Jeffery Hawkins
            >
            > PS. Please forgive my unsightly rambling...
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
            blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
            >
            > test'; " type=text/css>
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >






            It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!

            test'; " type=text/css>


            ---------------------------------
            Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Peters
            Each horizontal row is stitched down. On Eff s page (the one you linked) look at the narrow lacing at the top of the second row in the cut-away.
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 29, 2007
              Each horizontal row is stitched down. On Eff's page (the one you linked)
              look at the narrow lacing at the top of the second row in the cut-away.

              _________________________________________________________________
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            • Jeff Hawkins
              I ll ask Simon tomorrow at armory. If I run across this man, would you like me to relay any type of message? Jeffery Hawkins David Nesmith
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 30, 2007
                I'll ask Simon tomorrow at armory. If I run across this man, would you like me to relay any type of message?

                Jeffery Hawkins


                David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
                circa 1985 I sold my black & silver basket weave armor with red ito including the red kote haramaki under armer and the ORIGINAL Jap Vader helm to a young man from Bordermarch who was about my size. Tall and slender. His problem was that he was a new fighter and I had aquired quite a reputation on the field. Needless to say, everyone thought it was me in that armor! Can you say, "beat into the ground like a tent stake?" So, to save his young hide, he painted the entire armor blue. Don't know why he chose light blue, but at least it wasn't Jap Vader!

                kampai!
                Ishikawa Moritake (aka Moritomo)

                mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/kawara.PDF?55,3

                The graphic/pattern at the bottom of this link/page is what I am
                looking to do.

                Thank You,
                Jeffery Hawkins

                PS Young, tall man; light blue armor. I may need more detail than
                this as there is an actual group that wears blue armor (mostly barrel
                plastic, I believe), who's name involvles the term "Smurf".

                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
                >
                > There are several different styles of haidate. Most have the
                vertical and horizontal scales connected to make a semi rigid
                panel. Some are stitched to a backing piece while others are linked
                with chain mail and then sewn to the backing piece. There are also
                examples of hexagonal plates linked with chain mail or sewn into a
                brigandine. The haidate does not follow the same style as the rest
                of the yoroi. This is because the haidate was used primarily on
                horseback to protect the legs and most samurai removed them when on
                foot for more maneuverability.
                >
                > your in service,
                > Ishikawa Moritake
                >
                > p.s. Bordermarch you say? Ask them if they remember a tall young
                man who wore a suit of light blue armor many years ago... heh heh...
                that was MY first suit, sold to him but unbeknownst to him, it seemed
                my reputation came with it... LOL
                > Ishikawa
                >
                >
                > mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote:
                Ladys and Gentlemen,
                >
                > My name is Jeffery Hawkins. I live in Beaumont, TX and am only
                one
                > of too few Japanese persona in my local group: Bordermarch.
                >
                > I am currently working on armor for heavy fighting and have come
                to a
                > wall. And while unlikely, I hold my hopes that I can complete the
                > armor in time for our Autumn Melees in November.Any help would be
                > greatly appreciated.
                >
                > With Iyo Haidate, each "scale" is laced to the next, horizontally.
                >
                > Are the horizontal rows of scales laced to the next row or is each
                > horizontal row separately sewn to the fabric base? If each row is
                > sewn separately, how is this done? Are they stitched down
                completely
                > or sewn only along the top, allowing them the slide over/under the
                > surrounding rows if the haidate is "bunched"?
                >
                > So that no time is wasted, I've researched this a good deal
                through
                > various media including Clan Yama Kaminari's excellent site and
                > Sengoku Daimyo which is the most informationally jam-packed
                japanese
                > online resource that I have seen.
                >
                > The haidate is explained at great length on the formerly mentioned
                > site, but I am sadly a 90% visual learner and the pictures that
                I've
                > found are just not enough. The text explanations, due nly to my
                > intellectual shortfalls, confuse me a great deal.
                >
                > Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > Jeffery Hawkins
                >
                > PS. Please forgive my unsightly rambling...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
                blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
                >
                > test'; " type=text/css>
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!

                test'; " type=text/css>

                ---------------------------------
                Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                ---------------------------------
                Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jeff Hawkins
                So each horizontal row is stitched to the base individually with no connection to the surrounding rows? Please forgive my density, Jeffery Hawkins Michael
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 30, 2007
                  So each horizontal row is stitched to the base individually with no connection to the surrounding rows?

                  Please forgive my density,
                  Jeffery Hawkins


                  Michael Peters <shdwstel@...> wrote:

                  Each horizontal row is stitched down. On Eff's page (the one you linked)
                  look at the narrow lacing at the top of the second row in the cut-away.

                  __________________________________________________________
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                • David Nesmith
                  Please convey my warmest greetings to Simon & Tessa. It has been many, many years since I ve seen them. Blast from the past: Simon s stepping down at the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 30, 2007
                    Please convey my warmest greetings to Simon & Tessa. It has been many, many years since I've seen them. Blast from the past: Simon's stepping down at the coronation of Inman II in Emerald Keep. I was in Inman's entourage as one of his students. I've got some great pictures of them! (just not on digital yet)

                    As for the (then) young man, last I heard, he had given up heavy weapons to concentrate on swashing.

                    the humble old timer,
                    Ishikawa Moritake

                    Jeff Hawkins <mordici26@...> wrote: I'll ask Simon tomorrow at armory. If I run across this man, would you like me to relay any type of message?

                    Jeffery Hawkins


                    David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
                    circa 1985 I sold my black & silver basket weave armor with red ito including the red kote haramaki under armer and the ORIGINAL Jap Vader helm to a young man from Bordermarch who was about my size. Tall and slender. His problem was that he was a new fighter and I had aquired quite a reputation on the field. Needless to say, everyone thought it was me in that armor! Can you say, "beat into the ground like a tent stake?" So, to save his young hide, he painted the entire armor blue. Don't know why he chose light blue, but at least it wasn't Jap Vader!

                    kampai!
                    Ishikawa Moritake (aka Moritomo)

                    mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/kawara.PDF?55,3

                    The graphic/pattern at the bottom of this link/page is what I am
                    looking to do.

                    Thank You,
                    Jeffery Hawkins

                    PS Young, tall man; light blue armor. I may need more detail than
                    this as there is an actual group that wears blue armor (mostly barrel
                    plastic, I believe), who's name involvles the term "Smurf".

                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > There are several different styles of haidate. Most have the
                    vertical and horizontal scales connected to make a semi rigid
                    panel. Some are stitched to a backing piece while others are linked
                    with chain mail and then sewn to the backing piece. There are also
                    examples of hexagonal plates linked with chain mail or sewn into a
                    brigandine. The haidate does not follow the same style as the rest
                    of the yoroi. This is because the haidate was used primarily on
                    horseback to protect the legs and most samurai removed them when on
                    foot for more maneuverability.
                    >
                    > your in service,
                    > Ishikawa Moritake
                    >
                    > p.s. Bordermarch you say? Ask them if they remember a tall young
                    man who wore a suit of light blue armor many years ago... heh heh...
                    that was MY first suit, sold to him but unbeknownst to him, it seemed
                    my reputation came with it... LOL
                    > Ishikawa
                    >
                    >
                    > mordici26 <mordici26@...> wrote:
                    Ladys and Gentlemen,
                    >
                    > My name is Jeffery Hawkins. I live in Beaumont, TX and am only
                    one
                    > of too few Japanese persona in my local group: Bordermarch.
                    >
                    > I am currently working on armor for heavy fighting and have come
                    to a
                    > wall. And while unlikely, I hold my hopes that I can complete the
                    > armor in time for our Autumn Melees in November.Any help would be
                    > greatly appreciated.
                    >
                    > With Iyo Haidate, each "scale" is laced to the next, horizontally.
                    >
                    > Are the horizontal rows of scales laced to the next row or is each
                    > horizontal row separately sewn to the fabric base? If each row is
                    > sewn separately, how is this done? Are they stitched down
                    completely
                    > or sewn only along the top, allowing them the slide over/under the
                    > surrounding rows if the haidate is "bunched"?
                    >
                    > So that no time is wasted, I've researched this a good deal
                    through
                    > various media including Clan Yama Kaminari's excellent site and
                    > Sengoku Daimyo which is the most informationally jam-packed
                    japanese
                    > online resource that I have seen.
                    >
                    > The haidate is explained at great length on the formerly mentioned
                    > site, but I am sadly a 90% visual learner and the pictures that
                    I've
                    > found are just not enough. The text explanations, due nly to my
                    > intellectual shortfalls, confuse me a great deal.
                    >
                    > Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.
                    >
                    > Sincerely,
                    > Jeffery Hawkins
                    >
                    > PS. Please forgive my unsightly rambling...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the
                    blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
                    >
                    > test'; " type=text/css>
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!

                    test'; " type=text/css>

                    ---------------------------------
                    Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ---------------------------------
                    Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                    Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!

                    test'; " type=text/css>


                    ---------------------------------
                    Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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