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Re: [SCA-JML] Citation on sword cleaning?

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... This is really annoying, but I can t think of any citations. This may be one of those how to bake bread sort of things. Everyone knows how to do it,
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 4, 2000
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      Kamiizumi Munenori wrote:

      > Noble cousins,
      >
      > I'm looking for an English-language citation for a reference
      > on the earliest recorded use of the current technique used for
      > cleaning Japanese swords (cleaning oils off with powder, then
      > using clove oil as a protective coating). In my typical con-
      > fusion, I've left myself too little time to find the reference
      > myself. If anyone could provide title and author (or ISBN), I
      > can do the inter-library loan to get my hands on the book.

      This is really annoying, but I can't think of any citations.

      This may be one of those "how to bake bread" sort of things. Everyone knows
      how to do it, people show other people, there's no need to write a "how to"
      on it.

      The instructional book phenomenon, while it *did* exist in period, has
      really exploded in the past few decades of everyone wanting to pick up a
      book and teach themselves something new (often without the benefit of a
      real teacher somewhere).

      Effingham
    • Kamiizumi Munenori
      ... Sumimasen, Effingham-dono! I think I was too terse in phrasing my question. I m not looking for the how-to; rather, I m just looking for the earliest
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 5, 2000
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        --- In sca-jml@egroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@i...> wrote:
        > Kamiizumi Munenori wrote:
        >
        > > Noble cousins,
        > >
        > > I'm looking for an English-language citation for a reference
        > > on the earliest recorded use of the current technique used for
        > > cleaning Japanese swords (cleaning oils off with powder, then
        > > using clove oil as a protective coating). [snip]
        >
        > This is really annoying, but I can't think of any citations.
        >
        > This may be one of those "how to bake bread" sort of things.
        > Everyone knows how to do it, people show other people, there's
        > no need to write a "how to" on it.
        > [snip]
        > Effingham

        Sumimasen, Effingham-dono! I think I was too terse in phrasing
        my question. I'm not looking for the how-to; rather, I'm just
        looking for the earliest reliable date that's been established
        for the use of this technique. Actually, I don't even need the
        earliest date - just a date that falls firmly within my period.
        The citation is just to satisfy the thoroughly academic nature
        of my research project. Again, sorry for the confusion.

        Munenori
      • Barbara Nostrand
        Baron Edward! Don t we have iconographic evidence for sword cleaning dating from at least the late Muromachi period? I m pretty sure that I ve at least seen
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 5, 2000
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          Baron Edward!

          Don't we have iconographic evidence for sword cleaning dating
          from at least the late Muromachi period? I'm pretty sure that
          I've at least seen iconographic evidence of sword manufacture,
          and if I recall correctly, activity pretty much identical to
          cleaning formed the last panel or so.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
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        • Kass McGann
          ... I am only a lady of Heian and as such know nothing of these martial things. But it makes sense to me that sword cleaning dates back as far as swords do.
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 6, 2000
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            > Sumimasen, Effingham-dono! I think I was too terse in phrasing
            > my question. I'm not looking for the how-to; rather, I'm just
            > looking for the earliest reliable date that's been established
            > for the use of this technique. Actually, I don't even need the
            > earliest date - just a date that falls firmly within my period.
            > The citation is just to satisfy the thoroughly academic nature
            > of my research project. Again, sorry for the confusion.

            I am only a lady of Heian and as such know nothing of these martial
            things. But it makes sense to me that "sword cleaning" dates back as
            far as swords do. After all, would one have a sword that was not
            cleaned?

            Or perhaps I am mistaken...

            Fujiwara no Aoi
          • Gaylin
            ... Indeed you are not mistaken in your logic as best as I can tell, but allow me to repeat Munenori s question: ... He is, in his kindness, probably asking to
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 6, 2000
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              >I am only a lady of Heian and as such know nothing of these martial
              >things. But it makes sense to me that "sword cleaning" dates back as
              >far as swords do.

              Indeed you are not mistaken in your logic as best as I can tell, but allow
              me to repeat Munenori's question:

              At 11:57 PM -0500 12/3/2000, Kamiizumi Munenori wrote:
              >I'm looking for an English-language citation for a reference
              >on the earliest recorded use of the current technique used for
              >cleaning Japanese swords (cleaning oils off with powder, then
              >using clove oil as a protective coating).

              He is, in his kindness, probably asking to satisfy *my*
              curiosity and research bent. Specifically he is asking for
              a citation on the sword cleaning using the above technique,
              with some sort of powder and subsequent cleaning with oil,
              preferably with the type of oil that he is guessing from his
              reading as having been clove oil.

              He is not asking how exactly it was done, but merely any
              citation like this, similar, or different *that* it was done.
              Brevity is his hallmark. :)

              This is why I married the man. He goes off and finds me
              information. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact
              that he has excellent taste in scotch or makes a mean
              lasagna.

              Iasmin
              Iasmin De Cordoba, iasmin@...
            • Barbara Nostrand
              Fujiwara-Hime. Actually, swords changed quite a bit during Japanese history. Further, what is being talked about is a particular technique for cleaning and
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 6, 2000
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                Fujiwara-Hime.

                Actually, swords changed quite a bit during Japanese history.
                Further, what is being talked about is a particular technique
                for cleaning and polishing swords.

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar
                --
                +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
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              • Kass McGann
                ... but allow ... Ah... I see now. Thank you, Lady Iasmin, for explaining that. I couldn t wrap my head around why such a question wouldn t be
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 7, 2000
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                  > Indeed you are not mistaken in your logic as best as I can tell,
                  but allow
                  > me to repeat Munenori's question:

                  <snipped>

                  Ah... I see now. Thank you, Lady Iasmin, for explaining that. I
                  couldn't wrap my head around why such a question wouldn't be
                  answered "of course!"

                  Fujiwara no Aoi
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