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Re: [SCA-JML] Monks manes

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... Well, you have a choice to deal with. Zen monasteries did not have sohei. (Sohei were pretty much a phenomenon of the Heian and early Kamakura periods,
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 2, 2000
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      George Charette wrote:

      >
      > (TAJIMA) Well... I'm interrested by zen. In fact, it's one of my major
      > interrest. But my persona is much more a lay monk. In fact, I choose to
      > recreate a sohei (yes, an arrogant, irreverent, fighting monk... But I'm
      > not so bad) so maybe it will fit better to chose no 2 ?
      > But would it be "period" ?
      >

      Well, you have a choice to deal with. Zen monasteries did not have sohei. (Sohei were
      pretty much a phenomenon of the Heian and early Kamakura periods, anyway).

      What is the ultimate persona you're most interested in doing?


      Effingham
    • George Charette
      ... (TAJIMA) I though they were traces of them later. When Oda Nobunaga burnt Mt. Hiei, wasn t it because of all the troubles he get from the monks, including
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
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        >
        >Well, you have a choice to deal with. Zen monasteries did not have sohei.
        >(Sohei were
        >pretty much a phenomenon of the Heian and early Kamakura periods, anyway).

        (TAJIMA) I though they were traces of them later. When Oda Nobunaga burnt
        Mt. Hiei, wasn't it because of all the troubles he get from the monks,
        including the sohei?

        >What is the ultimate persona you're most interested in doing?

        (TAJIMA) Well... I'm pretty sure zen monks woudn't put an armour on and
        enter a battelfield... Wich is a problem for a rattan fighter. If I want to
        be as historical as possible and keep up with SCA fighting activities, I'll
        probably go for the phenomenon... With all the trouble it brings! (G) And I
        will need advices about the topic (cos probably as they were a phenomenon,
        there's little info on them)

        Tajima-bo

        P.S. Should I use the "-bo", even for a lay monk?
        _____________________________________________________________________________________
        Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
      • Joshua Badgley
        I m wondering if anyone can give me tips on the ori-eboshi (http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/5.htm) vs. the hiki-tate eboshi
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 7, 2000
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          I'm wondering if anyone can give me tips on the ori-eboshi
          (http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/5.htm) vs. the hiki-tate eboshi
          (http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/14.htm) and how the two are made.
          I'm looking for anything I can find on their construction, but if I can't
          find anything I'll just use the pics I have.

          -Godric Logan
          aka
          Ii Saburou
        • M & A
          If you find out how to make them let me know. Over a month ago I asked the same question but no one had a response. Its one of the last things I am missing
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 8, 2000
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            If you find out how to make them let me know. Over a month ago I asked the
            same question but no one had a response. Its one of the last things I am
            missing to complete my clothing.

            Mori
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Joshua Badgley" <fsjlb4@...>
            To: <sca-jml@egroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:39 PM
            Subject: [SCA-JML] More questions on headgear...


            > I'm wondering if anyone can give me tips on the ori-eboshi
            > (http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/5.htm) vs. the hiki-tate eboshi
            > (http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/14.htm) and how the two are made.
            > I'm looking for anything I can find on their construction, but if I can't
            > find anything I'll just use the pics I have.
            >
            > -Godric Logan
            > aka
            > Ii Saburou
            >
            >
            >
            > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
            >
          • Joshua Badgley
            ... Yeah, it is fairly important. Why don t I throw out my ideas and at least people can say no or that looks about right : For the hiki-tate eboshi I am
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 8, 2000
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              On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, M & A wrote:

              > If you find out how to make them let me know. Over a month ago I asked the
              > same question but no one had a response. Its one of the last things I am
              > missing to complete my clothing.
              >
              > Mori

              Yeah, it is fairly important.

              Why don't I throw out my ideas and at least people can say 'no' or 'that
              looks about right':

              For the hiki-tate eboshi I am thinking that is should be like the
              tate-eboshi, a large, ovoid shape, but floppy enough to fall back behind
              the wearer. Around the bottom is a white tie that goes around the bottom
              once and then ties in the front with what appears to be a square knot.

              I'm wondering if the ori-eboshi is the same design with string tied around
              it to produce the special shape. The string is easy, but the pattern is
              more difficult.

              I'm also curious as to the material used. I'm guessing it was generally a
              plainweave silk.


              I'm also curious about the kanmuri: was it starched or lacquered? I ask
              because I am looking again at a picture I took while I was there
              (http://modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/images/sokutai2.JPG) and it seems as it
              it is lacquered somehow. I wish I knew for certain, however.

              Anyway, I'm going to try to make the hiki-tate eboshi in the manner I
              described and I'll see how it turns out. If it works, I'll try to post a
              picture and let people know.

              -Godric Logan
              aka
              Ii Saburou
            • M & A
              Thats also the one I was going to try. The picture I have been using is in Arms and Armor of the Samurai by I Bottomley on page33. It is described as an Edo
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 8, 2000
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                Thats also the one I was going to try. The picture I have been using is in
                Arms and Armor of the Samurai by I Bottomley on page33. It is described as
                an Edo period eboshi and that a cap similar to this was worn in lieu of a
                helmet lining in the Heian and Kamakura periods.

                Mori
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Joshua Badgley" <fsjlb4@...>
                To: <sca-jml@egroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 12:32 PM
                Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] More questions on headgear...


                > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, M & A wrote:
                >
                > > If you find out how to make them let me know. Over a month ago I asked
                the
                > > same question but no one had a response. Its one of the last things I
                am
                > > missing to complete my clothing.
                > >
                > > Mori
                >
                > Yeah, it is fairly important.
                >
                > Why don't I throw out my ideas and at least people can say 'no' or 'that
                > looks about right':
                >
                > For the hiki-tate eboshi I am thinking that is should be like the
                > tate-eboshi, a large, ovoid shape, but floppy enough to fall back behind
                > the wearer. Around the bottom is a white tie that goes around the bottom
                > once and then ties in the front with what appears to be a square knot.
                >
                > I'm wondering if the ori-eboshi is the same design with string tied around
                > it to produce the special shape. The string is easy, but the pattern is
                > more difficult.
                >
                > I'm also curious as to the material used. I'm guessing it was generally a
                > plainweave silk.
                >
                >
                > I'm also curious about the kanmuri: was it starched or lacquered? I ask
                > because I am looking again at a picture I took while I was there
                > (http://modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/images/sokutai2.JPG) and it seems as it
                > it is lacquered somehow. I wish I knew for certain, however.
                >
                > Anyway, I'm going to try to make the hiki-tate eboshi in the manner I
                > described and I'll see how it turns out. If it works, I'll try to post a
                > picture and let people know.
                >
                > -Godric Logan
                > aka
                > Ii Saburou
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                >
                >
              • Joshua Badgley
                ... I think I found a copy of a picture on how to fold it. I ll try it out and let you know how it works. I ll try to photograph the process so that I can
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 8, 2000
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                  On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, M & A wrote:

                  > Thats also the one I was going to try. The picture I have been using is in
                  > Arms and Armor of the Samurai by I Bottomley on page33. It is described as
                  > an Edo period eboshi and that a cap similar to this was worn in lieu of a
                  > helmet lining in the Heian and Kamakura periods.
                  >
                  I think I found a copy of a picture on how to fold it. I'll try it out
                  and let you know how it works. I'll try to photograph the process so that
                  I can post it for everyone later.

                  -Godric Logan
                  aka
                  Ii Saburou
                • Don Luby
                  ... It s excellent and quite comfortable to wear under your helmet, works very well as a sweatband, and very styling when you ve taken your helmet off. I need
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 10, 2000
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                    On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, M & A wrote:

                    > Thats also the one I was going to try. The picture I have been
                    > using is in Arms and Armor of the Samurai by I Bottomley on page33.
                    > It is described as an Edo period eboshi and that a cap similar to
                    > this was worn in lieu of a helmet lining in the Heian and Kamakura
                    > periods.

                    It's excellent and quite comfortable to wear under your helmet,
                    works very well as a sweatband, and very styling when you've taken
                    your helmet off. I need to make a new one for fighting real soon,
                    because the one I've been wearing for fighting the past couple of
                    years has become sort of dingy with very regular wear.

                    > Mori
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Joshua Badgley" <fsjlb4@...>
                    > To: <sca-jml@egroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 12:32 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] More questions on headgear...
                    >
                    >
                    >> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, M & A wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> If you find out how to make them let me know. Over a month ago I
                    >>> asked the same question but no one had a response. Its one of the
                    >>> last things I am missing to complete my clothing.
                    >>>
                    >>> Mori
                    >>
                    >> Yeah, it is fairly important.
                    >>
                    >> Why don't I throw out my ideas and at least people can say 'no' or 'that
                    >> looks about right':
                    >>
                    >> For the hiki-tate eboshi I am thinking that is should be like the
                    >> tate-eboshi, a large, ovoid shape, but floppy enough to fall back behind
                    >> the wearer. Around the bottom is a white tie that goes around the bottom
                    >> once and then ties in the front with what appears to be a square knot.

                    These are amazingly easy to make, and take about a half yard of
                    fabric; unless I'm missing something very subtle, the way they're made
                    (or at least how I make mine) is to just put down two layers of fabric
                    and sew along the 'crest' line you want to create and turn it inside
                    out, and attach the white band for tying.

                    >> I'm wondering if the ori-eboshi is the same design with string tied around
                    >> it to produce the special shape. The string is easy, but the pattern is
                    >> more difficult.
                    >>
                    >> I'm also curious as to the material used. I'm guessing it was generally a
                    >> plainweave silk.

                    For the ones that I make for fighting are silk noil, which hold up
                    well, take starch well (if you want a stiff one), and, in the grand
                    scheme of things, not terribly more expensive than cotton or anything
                    else (you can get silk noil on the web for $5/yd or less, as opposed
                    to $3.yd for a good cotton, so it'll cost you $1 more per hat). And,
                    of course, silk is the right fabric (though I'm not certian noil is
                    right for eboshi).

                    >> I'm also curious about the kanmuri: was it starched or lacquered?

                    From what I've gotten, they're lacquered silk gauze.

                    >> I ask because I am looking again at a picture I took while I was
                    >> there (http://modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/images/sokutai2.JPG) and it
                    >> seems as it it is lacquered somehow. I wish I knew for certain,
                    >> however.
                    >>
                    >> Anyway, I'm going to try to make the hiki-tate eboshi in the manner I
                    >> described and I'll see how it turns out. If it works, I'll try to post a
                    >> picture and let people know.

                    Well, I've found only a few pictures of me in mine; the best one
                    (http://www.nb.net/~kmeg/kaminari/don.JPG) is the old fighting one,
                    from about a year ago. Somewhere there are pictures the 'dress' one
                    I've been wearing, which is very starched, and sticks up quite a bit
                    from the top of my head; if I can find some, I'll pass them along too.


                    >> -Godric Logan
                    >> aka
                    >> Ii Saburou



                    Koredono

                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no Koredono
                    djl@... Yama-kaminari-ryu
                    Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc
                  • Anthony J. Bryant
                    ... First of all, you have to realize that they re two totally different things. The orieboshi is formed from something that looks essentially like half an
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 10, 2000
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                      Joshua Badgley wrote:

                      > I'm wondering if anyone can give me tips on the ori-eboshi
                      > (http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/5.htm) vs. the hiki-tate eboshi
                      > (http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/14.htm) and how the two are made.
                      > I'm looking for anything I can find on their construction, but if I can't
                      > find anything I'll just use the pics I have.

                      First of all, you have to realize that they're two totally different things.
                      The orieboshi is formed from something that looks essentially like half an
                      oval. (Think semicircle, then pull the base line down a bit.) The hikitate
                      eboshi looks in flat profile like a sharkfin.


                      Effingham
                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... I seem to have lost a few posts. I was going to respond to this one, but it Went Away. Sorry... But I *did* answer the question. I directed you to the
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 10, 2000
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                        Joshua Badgley wrote:

                        > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, M & A wrote:
                        >
                        > > If you find out how to make them let me know. Over a month ago I asked the
                        > > same question but no one had a response. Its one of the last things I am
                        > > missing to complete my clothing.
                        > >
                        > > Mori
                        >

                        I seem to have lost a few posts. I was going to respond to this one, but it Went
                        Away. Sorry...

                        But I *did* answer the question. I directed you to the armour archive at
                        http://www.armourarchive.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000524.html where I just had
                        addressed a post on the subject of orieboshi.

                        >
                        > Yeah, it is fairly important.
                        >
                        > Why don't I throw out my ideas and at least people can say 'no' or 'that
                        > looks about right':
                        >
                        > For the hiki-tate eboshi I am thinking that is should be like the
                        > tate-eboshi, a large, ovoid shape, but floppy enough to fall back behind
                        > the wearer. Around the bottom is a white tie that goes around the bottom
                        > once and then ties in the front with what appears to be a square knot.

                        Nope. Tate eboshi is a TALL oval. Really, more of a rectangle with rounded
                        edges. The hikitate is a landshark. It can be worn standing (at which point it
                        tends to be called "nagaeboshi") or pulled back and down in a nice martial
                        style. It can also be pulled down and back, then folded flat back over the head
                        in front, resulting in some nice creases. (If you saw Shogun, this is how
                        Toranaga wore his most of the time.)

                        The white band at the base of the hikitate is very long, and there are two
                        types; it wraps around, crosses at the back and comes back to the front to tie,
                        or crosses in back, crosses in front again, and ties at the back.

                        >
                        > I'm wondering if the ori-eboshi is the same design with string tied around
                        > it to produce the special shape. The string is easy, but the pattern is
                        > more difficult.

                        The cords on an orieboshi are "optional." I recommend them as most people don't
                        have the chonmage required to hold one in place. (A pin through the topknot and
                        the base/back of the eboshi was standard, but since most of us don't have that
                        hairstyle now...)

                        There are dozens of different ways to fold them. Many clans had their own
                        preferred system, which is why we have "Nitta ori" and "Kyogoku ori" and so on.
                        Most seem to be a variant on a couple of simple folds. See the above URL for
                        some info.

                        >
                        > I'm also curious as to the material used. I'm guessing it was generally a
                        > plainweave silk.
                        >

                        Invariably rough. Sometimes patterned with a geometric (i.e., a black-on-black
                        lozenge pattern). Orieboshi were usually very, very rough, sometimes looking
                        like finely wadded paper that had been unwadded and folded. And many orieboshi
                        actually WERE paper, lacquered with a marbled pattern.

                        >
                        > I'm also curious about the kanmuri: was it starched or lacquered?

                        Neither, typically. It's a stiff weave of silk, but I think lacquer might have
                        been applied later. Did you touch the kanmuri on the dummy? That's simple silk,
                        but really stiff.

                        >

                        Effingham
                      • Joshua Badgley
                        ... Okay. It s been a while since I saw shogun, but I think I know what you are talking about. The simple cap that I made is hardly good enough for any of
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 10, 2000
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                          On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:

                          > > For the hiki-tate eboshi I am thinking that is should be like the
                          > > tate-eboshi, a large, ovoid shape, but floppy enough to fall back behind
                          > > the wearer. Around the bottom is a white tie that goes around the bottom
                          > > once and then ties in the front with what appears to be a square knot.
                          >
                          > Nope. Tate eboshi is a TALL oval. Really, more of a rectangle with rounded
                          > edges. The hikitate is a landshark. It can be worn standing (at which point it
                          > tends to be called "nagaeboshi") or pulled back and down in a nice martial
                          > style. It can also be pulled down and back, then folded flat back over the head
                          > in front, resulting in some nice creases. (If you saw Shogun, this is how
                          > Toranaga wore his most of the time.)

                          Okay. It's been a while since I saw shogun, but I think I know what you
                          are talking about. The simple cap that I made is hardly good enough for
                          any of this, but I have enough fabric to try again (I made sure I had
                          enough for a 'test' the first time). Still, it was good to have a hat for
                          today's event, even if it needs a lot of work (much better looking than my
                          very non-samurai haircut and lack of a topknot).

                          What would someone have done without a topknot? I remember hearing that
                          Musashi had a problem with it because of a childhood disease, and that was
                          suggested as a possible reason for his less than completely sanitary
                          habits.

                          > The white band at the base of the hikitate is very long, and there are two
                          > types; it wraps around, crosses at the back and comes back to the front to tie,
                          > or crosses in back, crosses in front again, and ties at the back.

                          Like just about all the other ties that I've seen so far...

                          > > I'm wondering if the ori-eboshi is the same design with string tied around
                          > > it to produce the special shape. The string is easy, but the pattern is
                          > > more difficult.
                          >
                          > The cords on an orieboshi are "optional." I recommend them as most people don't
                          > have the chonmage required to hold one in place. (A pin through the topknot and
                          > the base/back of the eboshi was standard, but since most of us don't have that
                          > hairstyle now...)

                          Yup. I've seen both black and white. Is there a significant difference
                          outside of personal preference?

                          > There are dozens of different ways to fold them. Many clans had their own
                          > preferred system, which is why we have "Nitta ori" and "Kyogoku ori" and so on.
                          > Most seem to be a variant on a couple of simple folds. See the above URL for
                          > some info.

                          Doumo arigatou gozaimasu, hiraizumi-dono.

                          > > I'm also curious as to the material used. I'm guessing it was generally a
                          > > plainweave silk.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Invariably rough. Sometimes patterned with a geometric (i.e., a black-on-black
                          > lozenge pattern). Orieboshi were usually very, very rough, sometimes looking
                          > like finely wadded paper that had been unwadded and folded. And many orieboshi
                          > actually WERE paper, lacquered with a marbled pattern.

                          Hmmm... rough as in how? Burlap bag-like rough? I think I have an idea
                          of what you mean, but I don't know if I can find that kind of fabric up
                          here.

                          > >
                          > > I'm also curious about the kanmuri: was it starched or lacquered?
                          >
                          > Neither, typically. It's a stiff weave of silk, but I think lacquer might have
                          > been applied later. Did you touch the kanmuri on the dummy? That's simple silk,
                          > but really stiff.
                          >
                          Probably not going to even attempt that. I don't remember the dummy well
                          enough. Gosh golly gee whiz, I guess I'll just have to go back to Japan
                          now. Shucky darn. ;)

                          -Ii Saburou
                          aka
                          Godric Logan
                        • M & A
                          My appologies Eff. I did not see the answer. :( Mori ... From: Anthony J. Bryant To: Sent: Sunday, December
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 14, 2000
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                            My appologies Eff. I did not see the answer. :(

                            Mori
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                            To: <sca-jml@egroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 4:32 AM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] More questions on headgear...


                            > Joshua Badgley wrote:
                            >
                            > > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, M & A wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > If you find out how to make them let me know. Over a month ago I
                            asked the
                            > > > same question but no one had a response. Its one of the last things I
                            am
                            > > > missing to complete my clothing.
                            > > >
                            > > > Mori
                            > >
                            >
                            > I seem to have lost a few posts. I was going to respond to this one, but
                            it Went
                            > Away. Sorry...
                            >
                            > But I *did* answer the question. I directed you to the armour archive at
                            > http://www.armourarchive.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000524.html where I just had
                            > addressed a post on the subject of orieboshi.
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Yeah, it is fairly important.
                            > >
                            > > Why don't I throw out my ideas and at least people can say 'no' or 'that
                            > > looks about right':
                            > >
                            > > For the hiki-tate eboshi I am thinking that is should be like the
                            > > tate-eboshi, a large, ovoid shape, but floppy enough to fall back behind
                            > > the wearer. Around the bottom is a white tie that goes around the
                            bottom
                            > > once and then ties in the front with what appears to be a square knot.
                            >
                            > Nope. Tate eboshi is a TALL oval. Really, more of a rectangle with rounded
                            > edges. The hikitate is a landshark. It can be worn standing (at which
                            point it
                            > tends to be called "nagaeboshi") or pulled back and down in a nice martial
                            > style. It can also be pulled down and back, then folded flat back over the
                            head
                            > in front, resulting in some nice creases. (If you saw Shogun, this is how
                            > Toranaga wore his most of the time.)
                            >
                            > The white band at the base of the hikitate is very long, and there are two
                            > types; it wraps around, crosses at the back and comes back to the front to
                            tie,
                            > or crosses in back, crosses in front again, and ties at the back.
                            >
                            > >
                            > > I'm wondering if the ori-eboshi is the same design with string tied
                            around
                            > > it to produce the special shape. The string is easy, but the pattern is
                            > > more difficult.
                            >
                            > The cords on an orieboshi are "optional." I recommend them as most people
                            don't
                            > have the chonmage required to hold one in place. (A pin through the
                            topknot and
                            > the base/back of the eboshi was standard, but since most of us don't have
                            that
                            > hairstyle now...)
                            >
                            > There are dozens of different ways to fold them. Many clans had their own
                            > preferred system, which is why we have "Nitta ori" and "Kyogoku ori" and
                            so on.
                            > Most seem to be a variant on a couple of simple folds. See the above URL
                            for
                            > some info.
                            >
                            > >
                            > > I'm also curious as to the material used. I'm guessing it was generally
                            a
                            > > plainweave silk.
                            > >
                            >
                            > Invariably rough. Sometimes patterned with a geometric (i.e., a
                            black-on-black
                            > lozenge pattern). Orieboshi were usually very, very rough, sometimes
                            looking
                            > like finely wadded paper that had been unwadded and folded. And many
                            orieboshi
                            > actually WERE paper, lacquered with a marbled pattern.
                            >
                            > >
                            > > I'm also curious about the kanmuri: was it starched or lacquered?
                            >
                            > Neither, typically. It's a stiff weave of silk, but I think lacquer might
                            have
                            > been applied later. Did you touch the kanmuri on the dummy? That's simple
                            silk,
                            > but really stiff.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > Effingham
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            >
                          • Kass McGann
                            ... Friends, Please let us not bow to the trend of over-informalization that so plagues our modern culture. Baron Master Edward signs his emails Effingham or
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 14, 2000
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                              > My appologies Eff. I did not see the answer. :(

                              Friends,

                              Please let us not bow to the trend of over-informalization that so
                              plagues our modern culture.

                              Baron Master Edward signs his emails "Effingham" or "Hiraizumi". I
                              think this is how we should address him. Shortening his name without
                              his express permission might be seen as rude and disrespectful. And
                              I don't think any of us want to convey that sentiment to someone who
                              has been such a gracious teacher to us all.

                              Sincerely,
                              Kass
                              aka Fujiwara no Aoi
                            • Munson, Eric
                              Fujiwara-hime, Perhaps this is a good opportunity to plug the terms of address piece you and Hiraizumi-meijin developed (are developing?), neh? -
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 15, 2000
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                                Fujiwara-hime,

                                Perhaps this is a good opportunity to plug the "terms of address" piece you
                                and Hiraizumi-meijin developed (are developing?), neh?

                                - mokurai-bozu

                                > ----------
                                > From: Kass McGann
                                > Reply To: sca-jml@egroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 5:10 PM
                                > To: sca-jml@egroups.com
                                > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: More questions on headgear...
                                >
                                > > My appologies Eff. I did not see the answer. :(
                                >
                                > Friends,
                                >
                                > Please let us not bow to the trend of over-informalization that so
                                > plagues our modern culture.
                                >
                                > Baron Master Edward signs his emails "Effingham" or "Hiraizumi". I
                                > think this is how we should address him. Shortening his name without
                                > his express permission might be seen as rude and disrespectful. And
                                > I don't think any of us want to convey that sentiment to someone who
                                > has been such a gracious teacher to us all.
                                >
                                > Sincerely,
                                > Kass
                                > aka Fujiwara no Aoi
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
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