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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Translation Help Please

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  • Ellen Badgley
    I do have to say that even if it doesn t work so well in Japanese, Robert the Pantless is an AWESOME SCA name, in my opinion. :) - Abe Akirakeiko ...
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 3 5:48 AM
      I do have to say that even if it doesn't work so well in Japanese, "Robert
      the Pantless" is an AWESOME SCA name, in my opinion. :)

      - Abe Akirakeiko

      On 7/2/07, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
      >
      > Noble Cousin!
      >
      > Greetings from Solveig!
      >
      > > What is the translation of "zubon nashi"
      >
      > zubon = pants
      > nashi = none/without
      >
      > And no, it does not make sense as a name.
      >
      > > Yeah I am just looking for something along the lines of pantless. I
      > > do know that most translations are kind of off but since I'm kinda
      > > stuck with the name in the barony I figure I can have some fun with
      > > it and see if the Japanese word or translation of it would sound good
      > > and try to make it stick. Its all in good fun =)
      >
      > I plead with you not to do this thing. Yes, it will give you a momentary
      > chuckle or two, but considering the official disdain with which Japanese
      > research and recreation is held, you will not be advancing your cause.
      > Further, I am simply giving you modern Japanese. And, no I will not
      > endeavor to come up with something for you in classical Japanese. ARGH!
      > Actually, classical Japanese is likely to be more long winded and lack a
      > nice generic word for pants.
      >
      > Your Humble Servant
      > Solveig Throndardottir
      > Amateur Scholar
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Anthony Bryant
      ... Well, there is the Norse name Broclos (lit. breech-less ) -- it became a byname (and then a surname) in England as Brekeles. But yeah, it doesn t really
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 3 6:23 AM
        On Jul 3, 2007, at 8:48 AM, Ellen Badgley wrote:

        > I do have to say that even if it doesn't work so well in Japanese,
        > "Robert
        > the Pantless" is an AWESOME SCA name, in my opinion. :)
        >
        > -
        Well, there is the Norse name "Broclos" (lit. "breech-less") -- it
        became a byname (and then a surname) in England as Brekeles.

        But yeah, it doesn't really work in Japanese.


        Effingham
        (too long a herald)
      • Rei Shounagon
        ... On reading the original question, this person immediately thought of pantsu nashi . Rei
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 3 9:32 AM
          Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:

          >
          > On Jul 3, 2007, at 8:48 AM, Ellen Badgley wrote:
          >
          > > I do have to say that even if it doesn't work so
          > well in Japanese,
          > > "Robert
          > > the Pantless" is an AWESOME SCA name, in my
          > opinion. :)
          > >
          > > -
          > Well, there is the Norse name "Broclos" (lit.
          > "breech-less") -- it
          > became a byname (and then a surname) in England as
          > Brekeles.

          On reading the original question, this person
          immediately thought of "pantsu nashi".

          Rei





          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Need a vacation? Get great deals
          to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
          http://travel.yahoo.com/
        • robertthelost
          Greetings All, ... Yeah I actually dont mind the name other than Robert is my real name. I might try to register it as a second name since it isnt to bad and
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 3 10:01 AM
            Greetings All,


            > I do have to say that even if it doesn't work so well in Japanese,
            > "Robert the Pantless" is an AWESOME SCA name, in my opinion. :)

            Yeah I actually dont mind the name other than Robert is my real name.
            I might try to register it as a second name since it isnt to bad and
            in a way i'm somewhat stuck with it for now.

            > zubon = pants
            > nashi = none/without

            > And no, it does not make sense as a name.

            Thank you for the translation. Yeah I figured it wouldnt make sense
            as a name since from what little I know (but still researching) there
            wasnt really a word for pants.

            > I plead with you not to do this thing. Yes, it will give you a
            > momentary chuckle or two, but considering the official disdain with
            > which Japanese research and recreation is held, you will not be
            > advancing your cause. Further, I am simply giving you modern
            > Japanese.

            I do admire the Japanese culture very much and I do not wish to mock
            in anyway their past, present or future. I kind of knew there wouldnt
            be any real acurate translation but I figured I'd ask to see. Part of
            from what I've been learning from the SCA is that it is sopposed to
            be fun and so I was just trying to possibly get that little bit of
            into fun into the name. Its kinda like, with the help of all of you
            here, I finally was able to settle on the name Atsumori. Well at the
            last practice I went to I mentioned that I had decided on a name and
            I told someone Atsumori, well their response was "Atsumori with you"
            yeah see fun =)

            > And, no I will not endeavor to come up with something for you in
            > classical Japanese. ARGH! Actually, classical Japanese is likely
            > to be more long winded and lack a nice generic word for pants.

            *big smile* My appologizes M'lady Solveig, I did not mean for you
            to "ARGH" =) You are actually one of the ones I look forward to
            seeing a response from, why I'm not sure, but you are. thank you
            again *kneels* *bows low* *then stands up and gives ya a big hug* =)

            My persona and my research has been on going for a while now. I have
            looked into all the periods from 600 to 1600AD. they are all very
            intresting in their own way. I have not looked into the language
            itself at the moment because if I did it would be way to much to take
            in at one time. I just want all you to know that I am studying as
            much as I can and dont want you all to think I'm just trying to get
            the easy way out by asking everything here. I enjoy studing the
            culture and have gained alot of knowledge that has enlightened me.

            Once again thank you all very much, you have all been very helpful
            and kind. I do appreciate all the responses and if anyone happens to
            think of a fun "nick name" let me know.


            In Service
            Ashikaga Atsumori A.K.A Robert the Pantless
          • Ellen Badgley
            Except pantsu generally means underwear , I believe (but that just makes it funnier). This whole topic reminds me of the wannabe ashigaru in the latest
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 3 5:03 PM
              Except "pantsu" generally means "underwear", I believe (but that just makes
              it funnier).

              This whole topic reminds me of the "wannabe" ashigaru in the latest Zatoichi
              movie:

              http://halfnakedguyrunningaroundwithaspearandyelling.ytmnd.com/
              (Yes, that is a real link.)

              - Abe Akirakeiko



              On 7/3/07, Rei Shounagon <reishounagon@...> wrote:
              >
              > Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@... <anthony_bryant%40cox.net>>
              > wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > On Jul 3, 2007, at 8:48 AM, Ellen Badgley wrote:
              > >
              > > > I do have to say that even if it doesn't work so
              > > well in Japanese,
              > > > "Robert
              > > > the Pantless" is an AWESOME SCA name, in my
              > > opinion. :)
              > > >
              > > > -
              > > Well, there is the Norse name "Broclos" (lit.
              > > "breech-less") -- it
              > > became a byname (and then a surname) in England as
              > > Brekeles.
              >
              > On reading the original question, this person
              > immediately thought of "pantsu nashi".
              >
              > Rei
              >
              > __________________________________________________________
              > Need a vacation? Get great deals
              > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
              > http://travel.yahoo.com/
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • wodeford
              ... Please, before you break your heart and bruise your forehead on that brick wall, go read this: http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/rfs.html It explains in
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 3 6:27 PM
                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "robertthelost" <drunken-savage@...>
                wrote:
                > Part of from what I've been learning from the SCA is that it is
                > sopposed to be fun and so I was just trying to possibly get that
                > little bit of into fun into the name.

                Please, before you break your heart and bruise your forehead on that
                brick wall, go read this: http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/rfs.html
                It explains in depth what sorts of names are registerable and why.
                Ideally, your registerable name should be one that could have existed
                in the period and culture you're supposed to be from, right down to
                the spelling. If that culture was not using the word "pants," you
                can't be "pantsless." Talk to your local herald.

                Secondly, speaking as one who chose a joke nickname and outgrew it,
                think very hard about whether you want to be living with it next year,
                five years from now, ten years from now.

                thank you
                > again *kneels* *bows low* *then stands up and gives ya a big hug*
                Eeeek! He hugged her! In front of Buddha and all the neighbors!!!!!!
                (How very unJapanese.....)

                > My persona and my research has been on going for a while now. I have
                > looked into all the periods from 600 to 1600AD. they are all very
                > intresting in their own way. I have not looked into the language
                > itself at the moment because if I did it would be way to much to take
                > in at one time.
                Don't neglect the language or literature. It's a very important part
                of any culture. You can learn a lot about things by reading what they
                read, even if it's in translation.

                > Once again thank you all very much, you have all been very helpful
                > and kind. I do appreciate all the responses and if anyone happens to
                > think of a fun "nick name" let me know.

                The thing about a "fun" nickname is it's fun for the person who thinks
                them up and a burden upon the hapless shmo who gets stuck with it.
                Such as "Turd Blossom," one of Our Commander In Chief's inventions for
                his deputy chief of staff. Be careful what you wish for.

                Saionji no Hanae
                West Kingdom
              • robertthelost
                Greetings All, ... just makes ... LOL yeah I just hope knowone from the barony see s that one =) ... I am pretty new to the SCA but I have read most of the
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 3 7:52 PM
                  Greetings All,


                  > Except "pantsu" generally means "underwear", I believe (but that
                  just makes
                  > it funnier).


                  LOL yeah I just hope knowone from the barony see's that one =)


                  > Please, before you break your heart and bruise your forehead on that
                  > brick wall, go read this: http://www.sca org/heraldry/ laurel/rfs.
                  > html
                  > It explains in depth what sorts of names are registerable and why.
                  > Ideally, your registerable name should be one that could have
                  > existed
                  > in the period and culture you're supposed to be from, right down to
                  > the spelling. If that culture was not using the word "pants," you
                  > can't be "pantsless." Talk to your local herald.


                  I am pretty new to the SCA but I have read most of the materials for
                  most of the things I am trying to attempt. The name I have chosen,
                  with ALOT of help from this group is "Ashikaga Atsumori" the common
                  name I am still up in the air about, it being "Ichiro". The whole
                  pantless thing was more of a joke that I got stuck with. When I'm
                  introduced to people now i'm kind of introduced as "The Pantless". So
                  I thought it would be good for myself to atleast know some form of
                  that in Japanese atleast just for kicks.

                  > Secondly, speaking as one who chose a joke nickname and outgrew it,
                  > think very hard about whether you want to be living with it next
                  > year,
                  > five years from now, ten years from now.

                  Honestly yeah I think I cuould. Its just something that would be
                  funny atleast for myself and would make a good convesation piece. I'm
                  normally shy and soft spoken so if anyone is wondering why people
                  call me that I would have something to kind of break the ice with.
                  also with a Japanese persona I could wear just a kosode with out
                  pants if I where a peasant type or a skirt type hakama which arnt
                  pants aswell. So I can see some conection but its just a matter of
                  conecting it all =)

                  > Don't neglect the language or literature. It's a very important part
                  > of any culture. You can learn a lot about things by reading what
                  > they
                  > read, even if it's in translation.

                  Oh know dont get me wrong I have looked at as much info as I can with
                  in reason. But at the moment I'm trying to get the time frame from
                  when I want my persona to be. I have learned alot of words and all
                  but I just havent tried to concentrate on just the language.
                  Literature is kind of hard to find at my local library but I do have
                  a list of books I would like to buy as soon as my funds allow it.

                  > The thing about a "fun" nickname is it's fun for the person who
                  > thinks
                  > them up and a burden upon the hapless shmo who gets stuck with it.
                  > Such as "Turd Blossom," one of Our Commander In Chief's inventions
                  > for
                  > his deputy chief of staff. Be careful what you wish for.

                  Yeah most of the time a given nick name might not be fun for the
                  person being called it. That I do understand, but this one I kinda
                  jokinly gave to myself not thinking anything of it and well, everyone
                  else I guess enjoyed it and found that people knew me better from my
                  posts by that name. And so The Pantless was born =)

                  Thank You All Again
                  Yours In Service
                  Atsumori
                • Solveig Throndardottir
                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... While it may be witty , it is unlikely to stand a chance in the College of Arms. Your Humble Servant Solveig
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 4 6:04 AM
                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig!

                    > I do have to say that even if it doesn't work so well in Japanese,
                    > "Robert
                    > the Pantless" is an AWESOME SCA name, in my opinion. :)

                    While it may be "witty", it is unlikely to stand a chance in the
                    College of Arms.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Solveig Throndardottir
                    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Unfortunately, pantsu means panties in Japanese. Watch out for Japanese Eigo it frequently means things that
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 4 6:15 AM
                      Noble Cousin!

                      Greetings from Solveig!
                      > On reading the original question, this person
                      > immediately thought of "pantsu nashi".
                      Unfortunately, "pantsu" means "panties" in Japanese.
                      Watch out for Japanese "Eigo" it frequently means
                      things that you do not suspect.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Solveig Throndardottir
                      Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... Many, if not all, of the Zatoichi movies express a kind of bitter- sweet humor. One outstanding example of humor in
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 4 6:25 AM
                        Noble Cousins!

                        Greetings from Solveig!

                        > This whole topic reminds me of the "wannabe" ashigaru in the latest
                        > Zatoichi
                        > movie:
                        >
                        > http://halfnakedguyrunningaroundwithaspearandyelling.ytmnd.com/
                        > (Yes, that is a real link.)

                        Many, if not all, of the Zatoichi movies express a kind of bitter-
                        sweet humor.
                        One outstanding example of humor in a way is when Zatoichi is
                        attacked in
                        a forrest. He of course dispatches all of his assailants. But, at the
                        end of a
                        quiet shot immediately after the battle, a tree falls over.

                        Please understand that "blind men" is one of the categories of the
                        kyougen
                        theatre of medieval Japan. Kyougen became fused at the hip with the Noh
                        theatre, but is itself an improvisational comic theatrical form. You
                        see a
                        brief glimpse of kyougen immediately before the Ninja attack in Last
                        Samurai. The kyougen performance is individually mentioned in the film
                        credits at the end of the movie.

                        If anyone here is interested in experimenting with a Japanese theatrical
                        form which is somewhat similar to Comedia Del'Arte, then they should
                        consider coming to the workshop that I sometimes run at Pennsic.

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Solveig Throndardottir
                        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Next time you visit your local library, try to meet the librarian who handles interlibrary loan. They will most
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 4 6:33 AM
                          Noble Cousin!

                          Greetings from Solveig!
                          On Jul 3, 2007, at 10:52 PM, robertthelost wrote:
                          > Oh know dont get me wrong I have looked at as much info as I can with
                          > in reason. But at the moment I'm trying to get the time frame from
                          > when I want my persona to be. I have learned alot of words and all
                          > but I just havent tried to concentrate on just the language.
                          > Literature is kind of hard to find at my local library but I do have
                          > a list of books I would like to buy as soon as my funds allow it.
                          Next time you visit your local library, try to meet the librarian who
                          handles
                          interlibrary loan. They will most likely not be at the circulation
                          desk. They
                          will most likely be sitting at a regular office desk somewhere around
                          the
                          reference section. You can even help the process a bit as WorldCat is
                          now publicly available online. This means that you can come in with
                          rather complete citation information.

                          Depending upon where exactly you are living, you may have access to
                          borrowing rights at libraries other than your local town library. For
                          example,
                          local college libraries may be in a consortium arrangement. Also, some
                          university research libraries (e.g. Cornell) will sell you borrowing
                          privileges
                          for a modest fee.

                          Your Humble Servant
                          Solveig Throndardottir
                          Amateur Scholar





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • robertthelost
                          Greetings, ... who ... around ... Cool thanks I might go there tomorrow since its closed today and check that out. ... Yeah my local library has a card cat
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 4 6:53 AM
                            Greetings,

                            > Next time you visit your local library, try to meet the librarian
                            who
                            > handles
                            > interlibrary loan. They will most likely not be at the circulation
                            > desk. They
                            > will most likely be sitting at a regular office desk somewhere
                            around
                            > the
                            > reference section.

                            Cool thanks I might go there tomorrow since its closed today and
                            check that out.

                            > You can even help the process a bit as WorldCat is
                            > now publicly available online. This means that you can come in with
                            > rather complete citation information.

                            Yeah my local library has a card cat online that also has the librays
                            in nearby towns but I havent been able to find to much yet. I will
                            look into Worldcat though.

                            > Depending upon where exactly you are living, you may have access to
                            > borrowing rights at libraries other than your local town library.
                            For
                            > example,
                            > local college libraries may be in a consortium arrangement. Also,
                            some
                            > university research libraries (e.g. Cornell) will sell you
                            borrowing
                            > privileges
                            > for a modest fee.

                            Now that I would be very intrested in. I'm no more than 5 min away
                            from Yale and if I could get into there library I think I would set
                            up a tent right outside =) Thanks for that info I will definatly look
                            into that asap.

                            Thank You Again

                            Atsumori
                          • Solveig Throndardottir
                            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Yale may have a separate East Asian library. For example, while it is very difficult to get into the main Harvard
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 4 7:08 AM
                              Noble Cousin!

                              Greetings from Solveig!
                              > Now that I would be very intrested in. I'm no more than 5 min away
                              > from Yale and if I could get into there library I think I would set
                              > up a tent right outside =) Thanks for that info I will definatly look
                              > into that asap.
                              Yale may have a separate East Asian library. For example, while
                              it is very difficult to get into the main Harvard library, the East
                              Asian
                              library at Harvard is in a separate building, is open to the public,
                              and has open stacks. I have not looked into getting borrowing
                              privileges there. The East Asian library at the University of
                              Toronto is in the same building as the main library, BUT unlike
                              the main library is open to the public.

                              Your Humble Servant
                              Solveig Throndardottir
                              Amateur Scholar





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • robertthelost
                              Greetings Solveig-dono, *bows* (would that be correct, or would it be Throndardottir-dono?) I was just on the Yale library web-site and saw something about
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 4 7:19 AM
                                Greetings Solveig-dono, *bows* (would that be correct, or would it be
                                Throndardottir-dono?)


                                I was just on the Yale library web-site and saw something about public
                                areas, still need to look more into it. Not sure if they have a
                                seperate East Asian building but did see a list of speacialty
                                buildings, none of which were Asian. Unfortunatly due to the holiday
                                everything is closed.

                                Thanks again for the University tip.

                                In Service
                                Atsumori
                              • Anthony Bryant
                                ... Yale has an incredible Asian collection. I hate you. ;) Don t forget to check out the periodicals room, too. You can get a lot of material from Monumenta
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 4 8:22 AM
                                  On Jul 4, 2007, at 9:53 AM, robertthelost wrote:

                                  > Now that I would be very intrested in. I'm no more than 5 min away
                                  > from Yale and if I could get into there library I think I would set
                                  > up a tent right outside =) Thanks for that info I will definatly look
                                  > into that asap.
                                  >

                                  Yale has an incredible Asian collection. I hate you. ;)

                                  Don't forget to check out the periodicals room, too. You can get a
                                  lot of material from Monumenta Nipponica and the Journal of Far East
                                  Asian Studies -- meaty articles, but they're shorter, self-contained,
                                  and tend to have tighter focus than lots of books.


                                  Effingham
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