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RE: japanese bards?????

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  • Electric Wolf
    2. japanese bards????? Posted by: jake curda jakecurda@yahoo.com jakecurda Date: Wed Jun 6, 2007 5:26 am ((PDT)) Greetings again, ok, so this has ben bugging
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 6, 2007
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      2. japanese bards?????
      Posted by: "jake curda" jakecurda@... jakecurda
      Date: Wed Jun 6, 2007 5:26 am ((PDT))

      Greetings again,

      ok, so this has ben bugging me for a little while.......what would the
      Japanese name be for a bard.....at one time I was told that it was Omidassu,
      but i can not call that sourse 100% reliable........I am a bard myself, have
      ben since before I felt the call to take up a Japanese persona, and the fire
      of that is still here.....but I want to know what a Japanese bard
      was......or the closest thing to it..........help please....again......

      Always in service,
      Yagyu Masamori Nobunagga, Tittle bard to the Baroney of the Stepps in the
      kingdom of Ansteorra......


      ---------------------------------
      I myself have been digging for quite some time.
      Even here I could not find answers but recently I did find a couple of
      terms...

      Taikomoto (drum bearer) is a term for a male geisha.
      Storyteller, singer, joke teller, musician, overall entertainer.
      There is another word I can't remember right now all my notes are at home.
      The position is being revived by one of them in Japan right now, I believe I
      found
      a link to his site on Wikipedia.
      Again, I have more notes at home and will send them tonight.

      Okabe

      > --
      > David "Wolf" Mc.
      > http://www.geocities.com/elecwolf/
      > "Nullus anxietas"



      --
      David "Wolf" Mc.
      http://www.geocities.com/elecwolf/
      "Nullus anxietas"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • chasrmartin
      Taikomochi sounds like the guy who beats on the rice with a sledge during New Years. (Which is my favorite part of preparing for New Years.) Just for fun,
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 7, 2007
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        "Taikomochi" sounds like the guy who beats on the rice with a sledge
        during New Years.

        (Which is my favorite part of preparing for New Years.)

        Just for fun, here's wikipedia on biwa (which is effectively the same
        as a p'i p'a, but not the same as p'i p'a duck, which tastes much
        better but is hard to tune.)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biwa

        Does anyone know what the Japanese name for an erhu is?
      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Do you have documentary evidence? Would you mind sharing it? Changing nanori was fairly common. Actual stacking of
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 7, 2007
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          > one of wich being a japanese-american whoes parents were from
          > Kyoto, we found evidence that in early Muromachi small and "back-
          > woods" familes were stacking nanori....

          Do you have documentary evidence? Would you mind sharing it? Changing
          nanori was fairly common. Actual stacking of nanori is at best less
          common. You really do need to be able to document the practice with
          something other than the verbal say-so of your friend. What you need
          to do is to find a pre-1601 genealogy which shows the practice.

          Since you mentioned that your name was about to be approved, I am
          curious as to when the paperwork went in as it does not appear on any
          kingdom Letter of Intent since November. Further, names and armory
          that far back have already been acted upon by Laurel. This means that
          your proposed name is not on the verge of approval. I also checked
          all of the Letters of Acceptance and Return going back to January of
          2006, and you do not appear there either. Finally, the Online Ordinal
          and Armorial is current through June of 2006, and you do not appear
          their either. So, either your paperwork has been lost, or your name
          has not yet made it out of kingdom. One final possibility is that the
          spelling of Yagyu was changed somewhere in the paperwork trail.
          However, I sort of doubt that.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Yay! The Wikipedia article you found is pretty much accurate. You really do have to check Wikipedia articles.
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 7, 2007
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig!

            > I found Taikomochi or Houkan. Basically a male geisha.

            Yay! The Wikipedia article you found is pretty much accurate.
            You really do have to check Wikipedia articles. Basically,
            Daijirin agrees with you and even gives "dangeisha" (male geisha)
            as a synonym. Basically, you win.

            > Storyteller, joke teller, musician, all around entertainer.

            The description in Daijirin goes on to say that they were entertainers
            at drinking parties. You should understand that these tended to be
            free-lance professionals. However, I suppose that they can be
            retained. Certainly, Kurosawa appeared to think so when he made
            Ran.

            Finally, "Houkan" sounds much more official than "Taikomochi".

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jrwences
            ... Probably the closest analogous Japanese instrument (as opposed to a Japanese word for the Chinese instrument) is the kokyu. It resembles a small shamisen
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 7, 2007
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "chasrmartin" <chasrmartin@...> wrote:

              > Does anyone know what the Japanese name for an erhu is?
              >
              Probably the closest analogous Japanese instrument (as opposed to a
              Japanese word for the Chinese instrument) is the kokyu. It resembles a
              small shamisen played with a bow.

              See the image at:
              http://ericgolub.com/photo/kokyo.htm

              Wikipedia suggests that the Japanese name for the erhu is "niko."
            • JL Badgley
              ... I agree. I have *seen* the practice, but almost always in the Edo period (post-1600). Ofttimes it is difficult to say if a name is a double nanori or if
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 8, 2007
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                On 6/7/07, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
                > Noble Cousin!
                >
                > Greetings from Solveig!
                >
                > > one of wich being a japanese-american whoes parents were from
                > > Kyoto, we found evidence that in early Muromachi small and "back-
                > > woods" familes were stacking nanori....
                >
                > Do you have documentary evidence? Would you mind sharing it? Changing
                > nanori was fairly common. Actual stacking of nanori is at best less
                > common. You really do need to be able to document the practice with
                > something other than the verbal say-so of your friend. What you need
                > to do is to find a pre-1601 genealogy which shows the practice.

                I agree. I have *seen* the practice, but almost always in the Edo
                period (post-1600). Ofttimes it is difficult to say if a name is a
                double nanori or if it is a nanori stacked together with a religious
                name or something similar (in which case it probably wouldn't be read
                the same as a nanori, using the on'yomi instead).

                > 2006, and you do not appear there either. Finally, the Online Ordinal
                > and Armorial is current through June of 2006, and you do not appear
                > their either. So, either your paperwork has been lost, or your name
                > has not yet made it out of kingdom. One final possibility is that the
                > spelling of Yagyu was changed somewhere in the paperwork trail.
                > However, I sort of doubt that.

                I think, if this name is new, there's possibly one more thing to look
                at--it should be 'Nobunaga'. 'Nobunagga' is a misspelling unless you
                are doing that for some other reason (basically, Nobunagga would need
                to be 'No*bu*na*(tsu)*ga' and I feel confident in saying that's not a
                Japanese name--especially not a nanori. 'No*bu*na*ga' on the other
                hand, is. Those breaks show how it would have to be put together with
                hiragana or katakana, the basic structure of the Japanese langugae).

                Solveig-dono, I've been trying to think on the 'Bard of the Barony of
                the Steppes'. My thought is that Chinese sounds more 'official', as
                you mention, but we want to differentiate this 'Houkan' from any
                other--What about 'Sougen-Houkan' ('Grassy Plains Houkan')? It still
                feels more awkward than using a title, like Kusahara no X (where X is
                'Houkan', 'Taikomochi' or whatever other indicator they want to throw
                in). I get the feeling that we are shoehorning Western ideas into
                Japanese traditional culture, of course.

                -Ii
              • jake curda
                just that.......and i confess that the issue of the name was left up to my kingdom heralds.....I am not aware of all the details involving it.....when last
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 8, 2007
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                  just that.......and i confess that the issue of the name was left up to my kingdom heralds.....I am not aware of all the details involving it.....when last spoken to they simply said that it was all in order.........but something I would wish to adresst o Solveig-dono and that was the mention to the use of a baroneal tittle as being pretentious.........it is infact an earned tittle sempai........and one that is justly used, I am in fact The Bard of the Stepps in the Kingdom of Ansteorra.......so far from pretensious, it is a tittle held with pride, as I fall in a long line of great artisans and laureles to hold this tittle......this is why I am looking for a Japanese tittle...........finaly, the proof citation, for the name, was not given verbal but documented......now it could be that it comes mostly from post-1600.....but as it was explaned to me, that would be one "weirdness" that I am told is allowed in nameing within the SCA........but once again, I confess that
                  heraldry is not one of my arts, and I know little about the art or the process.....I only go off what I ma told from my hearld.......and it is spelled with 1 g...lol......I just can't keep my fingers typing as fast as I think.....in short I SUCK at typing........that I will never deny......

                  thank you all,
                  Yagyu Masamori Nobunaga, Tittle Bard to the Barony of the Stepps in the Kingdom of Ansteorra

                  JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
                  On 6/7/07, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
                  > Noble Cousin!
                  >
                  > Greetings from Solveig!
                  >
                  > > one of wich being a japanese-american whoes parents were from
                  > > Kyoto, we found evidence that in early Muromachi small and "back-
                  > > woods" familes were stacking nanori....
                  >
                  > Do you have documentary evidence? Would you mind sharing it? Changing
                  > nanori was fairly common. Actual stacking of nanori is at best less
                  > common. You really do need to be able to document the practice with
                  > something other than the verbal say-so of your friend. What you need
                  > to do is to find a pre-1601 genealogy which shows the practice.

                  I agree. I have *seen* the practice, but almost always in the Edo
                  period (post-1600). Ofttimes it is difficult to say if a name is a
                  double nanori or if it is a nanori stacked together with a religious
                  name or something similar (in which case it probably wouldn't be read
                  the same as a nanori, using the on'yomi instead).

                  > 2006, and you do not appear there either. Finally, the Online Ordinal
                  > and Armorial is current through June of 2006, and you do not appear
                  > their either. So, either your paperwork has been lost, or your name
                  > has not yet made it out of kingdom. One final possibility is that the
                  > spelling of Yagyu was changed somewhere in the paperwork trail.
                  > However, I sort of doubt that.

                  I think, if this name is new, there's possibly one more thing to look
                  at--it should be 'Nobunaga'. 'Nobunagga' is a misspelling unless you
                  are doing that for some other reason (basically, Nobunagga would need
                  to be 'No*bu*na*(tsu)*ga' and I feel confident in saying that's not a
                  Japanese name--especially not a nanori. 'No*bu*na*ga' on the other
                  hand, is. Those breaks show how it would have to be put together with
                  hiragana or katakana, the basic structure of the Japanese langugae).

                  Solveig-dono, I've been trying to think on the 'Bard of the Barony of
                  the Steppes'. My thought is that Chinese sounds more 'official', as
                  you mention, but we want to differentiate this 'Houkan' from any
                  other--What about 'Sougen-Houkan' ('Grassy Plains Houkan')? It still
                  feels more awkward than using a title, like Kusahara no X (where X is
                  'Houkan', 'Taikomochi' or whatever other indicator they want to throw
                  in). I get the feeling that we are shoehorning Western ideas into
                  Japanese traditional culture, of course.

                  -Ii





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                • jake curda
                  after carefull reading i belieave that I will use houkan, as it best describes my profession.........as the tittle i will use though, I think it would be best
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 8, 2007
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                    after carefull reading i belieave that I will use houkan, as it best describes my profession.........as the tittle i will use though, I think it would be best to just leave it as the Stepps and not a japanese equivilent.....so would it run as Stepps no Houkan or Houkan no Stepps.......becouse I am no A bard of the Stepps, but THE bard of the Stepps?????.......

                    Yagyu.....

                    jake curda <jakecurda@...> wrote:
                    just that.......and i confess that the issue of the name was left up to my kingdom heralds.....I am not aware of all the details involving it.....when last spoken to they simply said that it was all in order.........but something I would wish to adresst o Solveig-dono and that was the mention to the use of a baroneal tittle as being pretentious.........it is infact an earned tittle sempai........and one that is justly used, I am in fact The Bard of the Stepps in the Kingdom of Ansteorra.......so far from pretensious, it is a tittle held with pride, as I fall in a long line of great artisans and laureles to hold this tittle......this is why I am looking for a Japanese tittle...........finaly, the proof citation, for the name, was not given verbal but documented......now it could be that it comes mostly from post-1600.....but as it was explaned to me, that would be one "weirdness" that I am told is allowed in nameing within the SCA........but once again, I confess
                    that
                    heraldry is not one of my arts, and I know little about the art or the process.....I only go off what I ma told from my hearld.......and it is spelled with 1 g...lol......I just can't keep my fingers typing as fast as I think.....in short I SUCK at typing........that I will never deny......

                    thank you all,
                    Yagyu Masamori Nobunaga, Tittle Bard to the Barony of the Stepps in the Kingdom of Ansteorra

                    JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
                    On 6/7/07, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
                    > Noble Cousin!
                    >
                    > Greetings from Solveig!
                    >
                    > > one of wich being a japanese-american whoes parents were from
                    > > Kyoto, we found evidence that in early Muromachi small and "back-
                    > > woods" familes were stacking nanori....
                    >
                    > Do you have documentary evidence? Would you mind sharing it? Changing
                    > nanori was fairly common. Actual stacking of nanori is at best less
                    > common. You really do need to be able to document the practice with
                    > something other than the verbal say-so of your friend. What you need
                    > to do is to find a pre-1601 genealogy which shows the practice.

                    I agree. I have *seen* the practice, but almost always in the Edo
                    period (post-1600). Ofttimes it is difficult to say if a name is a
                    double nanori or if it is a nanori stacked together with a religious
                    name or something similar (in which case it probably wouldn't be read
                    the same as a nanori, using the on'yomi instead).

                    > 2006, and you do not appear there either. Finally, the Online Ordinal
                    > and Armorial is current through June of 2006, and you do not appear
                    > their either. So, either your paperwork has been lost, or your name
                    > has not yet made it out of kingdom. One final possibility is that the
                    > spelling of Yagyu was changed somewhere in the paperwork trail.
                    > However, I sort of doubt that.

                    I think, if this name is new, there's possibly one more thing to look
                    at--it should be 'Nobunaga'. 'Nobunagga' is a misspelling unless you
                    are doing that for some other reason (basically, Nobunagga would need
                    to be 'No*bu*na*(tsu)*ga' and I feel confident in saying that's not a
                    Japanese name--especially not a nanori. 'No*bu*na*ga' on the other
                    hand, is. Those breaks show how it would have to be put together with
                    hiragana or katakana, the basic structure of the Japanese langugae).

                    Solveig-dono, I've been trying to think on the 'Bard of the Barony of
                    the Steppes'. My thought is that Chinese sounds more 'official', as
                    you mention, but we want to differentiate this 'Houkan' from any
                    other--What about 'Sougen-Houkan' ('Grassy Plains Houkan')? It still
                    feels more awkward than using a title, like Kusahara no X (where X is
                    'Houkan', 'Taikomochi' or whatever other indicator they want to throw
                    in). I get the feeling that we are shoehorning Western ideas into
                    Japanese traditional culture, of course.

                    -Ii

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                  • JL Badgley
                    It would be Houkan of the Steppes , in my opinion, or The Houkan Bard of the Steppes . I would even recommend The Kusahara Bard (kusahara means grassy
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 8, 2007
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                      It would be 'Houkan of the Steppes', in my opinion, or 'The Houkan Bard of
                      the Steppes'. I would even recommend 'The Kusahara Bard' (kusahara means
                      'grassy plain'--and today means steppe. It sounds perfectly reasonable to
                      me, I'm not sure what Solveig-dono's problem with it is).

                      If you want to have the 'no' I would suggest a full title, and then it would
                      be something like Kusahara no Houkan--think of 'no' as an "'s"--Kusahara's
                      Bard.

                      Still, it may be better to have most of the title in English.

                      -Ii

                      On 6/8/07, jake curda <jakecurda@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > after carefull reading i belieave that I will use houkan, as it best
                      > describes my profession.........as the tittle i will use though, I think it
                      > would be best to just leave it as the Stepps and not a japanese
                      > equivilent.....so would it run as Stepps no Houkan or Houkan no
                      > Stepps.......becouse I am no A bard of the Stepps, but THE bard of the
                      > Stepps?????.......
                      >
                      > Yagyu.....
                      >
                      >
                      > jake curda <jakecurda@... <jakecurda%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                      > just that.......and i confess that the issue of the name was left up to my
                      > kingdom heralds.....I am not aware of all the details involving it.....when
                      > last spoken to they simply said that it was all in order.........but
                      > something I would wish to adresst o Solveig-dono and that was the mention to
                      > the use of a baroneal tittle as being pretentious.........it is infact an
                      > earned tittle sempai........and one that is justly used, I am in fact The
                      > Bard of the Stepps in the Kingdom of Ansteorra.......so far from
                      > pretensious, it is a tittle held with pride, as I fall in a long line of
                      > great artisans and laureles to hold this tittle......this is why I am
                      > looking for a Japanese tittle...........finaly, the proof citation, for the
                      > name, was not given verbal but documented......now it could be that it comes
                      > mostly from post-1600.....but as it was explaned to me, that would be one
                      > "weirdness" that I am told is allowed in nameing within the SCA........but
                      > once again, I confess
                      > that
                      > heraldry is not one of my arts, and I know little about the art or the
                      > process.....I only go off what I ma told from my hearld.......and it is
                      > spelled with 1 g...lol......I just can't keep my fingers typing as fast as I
                      > think.....in short I SUCK at typing........that I will never deny......
                      >
                      > thank you all,
                      > Yagyu Masamori Nobunaga, Tittle Bard to the Barony of the Stepps in the
                      > Kingdom of Ansteorra
                      >
                      > JL Badgley <tatsushu@... <tatsushu%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                      > On 6/7/07, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@... <nostrand%40acm.org>>
                      > wrote:
                      > > Noble Cousin!
                      > >
                      > > Greetings from Solveig!
                      > >
                      > > > one of wich being a japanese-american whoes parents were from
                      > > > Kyoto, we found evidence that in early Muromachi small and "back-
                      > > > woods" familes were stacking nanori....
                      > >
                      > > Do you have documentary evidence? Would you mind sharing it? Changing
                      > > nanori was fairly common. Actual stacking of nanori is at best less
                      > > common. You really do need to be able to document the practice with
                      > > something other than the verbal say-so of your friend. What you need
                      > > to do is to find a pre-1601 genealogy which shows the practice.
                      >
                      > I agree. I have *seen* the practice, but almost always in the Edo
                      > period (post-1600). Ofttimes it is difficult to say if a name is a
                      > double nanori or if it is a nanori stacked together with a religious
                      > name or something similar (in which case it probably wouldn't be read
                      > the same as a nanori, using the on'yomi instead).
                      >
                      > > 2006, and you do not appear there either. Finally, the Online Ordinal
                      > > and Armorial is current through June of 2006, and you do not appear
                      > > their either. So, either your paperwork has been lost, or your name
                      > > has not yet made it out of kingdom. One final possibility is that the
                      > > spelling of Yagyu was changed somewhere in the paperwork trail.
                      > > However, I sort of doubt that.
                      >
                      > I think, if this name is new, there's possibly one more thing to look
                      > at--it should be 'Nobunaga'. 'Nobunagga' is a misspelling unless you
                      > are doing that for some other reason (basically, Nobunagga would need
                      > to be 'No*bu*na*(tsu)*ga' and I feel confident in saying that's not a
                      > Japanese name--especially not a nanori. 'No*bu*na*ga' on the other
                      > hand, is. Those breaks show how it would have to be put together with
                      > hiragana or katakana, the basic structure of the Japanese langugae).
                      >
                      > Solveig-dono, I've been trying to think on the 'Bard of the Barony of
                      > the Steppes'. My thought is that Chinese sounds more 'official', as
                      > you mention, but we want to differentiate this 'Houkan' from any
                      > other--What about 'Sougen-Houkan' ('Grassy Plains Houkan')? It still
                      > feels more awkward than using a title, like Kusahara no X (where X is
                      > 'Houkan', 'Taikomochi' or whatever other indicator they want to throw
                      > in). I get the feeling that we are shoehorning Western ideas into
                      > Japanese traditional culture, of course.
                      >
                      > -Ii
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                      > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                      > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Nesmith
                      ...Steppes no Houkan would be the correct order Moritake jake curda wrote: after carefull reading i
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 8, 2007
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                        ...Steppes no Houkan would be the correct order

                        Moritake

                        jake curda <jakecurda@...> wrote: after carefull reading i belieave that I will use houkan, as it best describes my profession.........as the tittle i will use though, I think it would be best to just leave it as the Stepps and not a japanese equivilent.....so would it run as Stepps no Houkan or Houkan no Stepps.......becouse I am no A bard of the Stepps, but THE bard of the Stepps?????.......

                        Yagyu.....

                        jake curda <jakecurda@...> wrote:
                        just that.......and i confess that the issue of the name was left up to my kingdom heralds.....I am not aware of all the details involving it.....when last spoken to they simply said that it was all in order.........but something I would wish to adresst o Solveig-dono and that was the mention to the use of a baroneal tittle as being pretentious.........it is infact an earned tittle sempai........and one that is justly used, I am in fact The Bard of the Stepps in the Kingdom of Ansteorra.......so far from pretensious, it is a tittle held with pride, as I fall in a long line of great artisans and laureles to hold this tittle......this is why I am looking for a Japanese tittle...........finaly, the proof citation, for the name, was not given verbal but documented......now it could be that it comes mostly from post-1600.....but as it was explaned to me, that would be one "weirdness" that I am told is allowed in nameing within the SCA........but once again, I confess
                        that
                        heraldry is not one of my arts, and I know little about the art or the process.....I only go off what I ma told from my hearld.......and it is spelled with 1 g...lol......I just can't keep my fingers typing as fast as I think.....in short I SUCK at typing........that I will never deny......

                        thank you all,
                        Yagyu Masamori Nobunaga, Tittle Bard to the Barony of the Stepps in the Kingdom of Ansteorra

                        JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
                        On 6/7/07, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
                        > Noble Cousin!
                        >
                        > Greetings from Solveig!
                        >
                        > > one of wich being a japanese-american whoes parents were from
                        > > Kyoto, we found evidence that in early Muromachi small and "back-
                        > > woods" familes were stacking nanori....
                        >
                        > Do you have documentary evidence? Would you mind sharing it? Changing
                        > nanori was fairly common. Actual stacking of nanori is at best less
                        > common. You really do need to be able to document the practice with
                        > something other than the verbal say-so of your friend. What you need
                        > to do is to find a pre-1601 genealogy which shows the practice.

                        I agree. I have *seen* the practice, but almost always in the Edo
                        period (post-1600). Ofttimes it is difficult to say if a name is a
                        double nanori or if it is a nanori stacked together with a religious
                        name or something similar (in which case it probably wouldn't be read
                        the same as a nanori, using the on'yomi instead).

                        > 2006, and you do not appear there either. Finally, the Online Ordinal
                        > and Armorial is current through June of 2006, and you do not appear
                        > their either. So, either your paperwork has been lost, or your name
                        > has not yet made it out of kingdom. One final possibility is that the
                        > spelling of Yagyu was changed somewhere in the paperwork trail.
                        > However, I sort of doubt that.

                        I think, if this name is new, there's possibly one more thing to look
                        at--it should be 'Nobunaga'. 'Nobunagga' is a misspelling unless you
                        are doing that for some other reason (basically, Nobunagga would need
                        to be 'No*bu*na*(tsu)*ga' and I feel confident in saying that's not a
                        Japanese name--especially not a nanori. 'No*bu*na*ga' on the other
                        hand, is. Those breaks show how it would have to be put together with
                        hiragana or katakana, the basic structure of the Japanese langugae).

                        Solveig-dono, I've been trying to think on the 'Bard of the Barony of
                        the Steppes'. My thought is that Chinese sounds more 'official', as
                        you mention, but we want to differentiate this 'Houkan' from any
                        other--What about 'Sougen-Houkan' ('Grassy Plains Houkan')? It still
                        feels more awkward than using a title, like Kusahara no X (where X is
                        'Houkan', 'Taikomochi' or whatever other indicator they want to throw
                        in). I get the feeling that we are shoehorning Western ideas into
                        Japanese traditional culture, of course.

                        -Ii

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                      • Solveig Throndardottir
                        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! The problem with pretense is not that I disbelieved that you were a bard to your barony. I suspected that that was the
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 8, 2007
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                          Noble Cousin!

                          Greetings from Solveig! The problem with pretense is not that I
                          disbelieved that you were a bard to your barony.
                          I suspected that that was the case. The problem is to avoid pretense
                          to an imperial title. Regardless, finding a
                          good way for you to say bard of your barony is separate from the name
                          question. I think that the version that
                          sounds sort of Chinese also sounds sort of official. So, you might
                          want to use that. The problem comes in more
                          along the lines of attaching it to the name of the Barony. I doubt
                          that this is necessary. You have a job, not a title.

                          Your Humble Servant
                          Solveig Throndardottir
                          Amateur Scholar





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                        • Solveig Throndardottir
                          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Yes, we understand that. However, it is still not a title. It is still a job after a fashion. The same thing is true
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 8, 2007
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                            Noble Cousin!

                            Greetings from Solveig!

                            > jake curda <jakecurda@...>
                            > wrote: after carefull reading i
                            > belieave that I will use houkan, as it best describes my
                            > profession.........as the tittle i will use though, I think it
                            > would be best to just leave it as the Stepps and not a japanese
                            > equivilent.....so would it run as Stepps no Houkan or Houkan no
                            > Stepps.......becouse I am no A bard of the Stepps, but THE bard of
                            > the Stepps?????.......

                            Yes, we understand that. However, it is still not a title. It is
                            still a job after a fashion. The same thing is true for whoever is
                            the current heavy list champion. Basically, at the end of your term,
                            the job goes poof.

                            Hokan is perfectly fine. However, if you want to emphasize your
                            leadership role, then you might want to consider -shi
                            (teacher) or --kan (minister) to the end of the thing. I would
                            recommend -shi over -kan as it roughly translates to
                            "master" in the sense of "dance master" &c. If you decide to stick -
                            shi on the end the S probably turns into a J due
                            to coarticulation of adjacent sounds.

                            Finally, you really do not need to stick the baronial name onto the
                            thing. However, if you decide to do so, the baronial name should
                            probably bear the suffix -kuni (country). This is the suffix commonly
                            found in the names of pre-modern Japanese
                            provinces. Provincial names were often shortened to the on'yomi of
                            the initial kanji and "koku" the on'yomi for kuni.

                            Your Humble Servant
                            Solveig Throndardottir
                            Amateur Scholar





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