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Re: Combat styles & useage

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  • mashato
    Greetings to you my friend, Now I cant really comment on the SCA attitudes and changes but about the use of samurai style of fighting against european (namely
    Message 1 of 6 , May 26, 2007
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      Greetings to you my friend,

      Now I cant really comment on the SCA attitudes and changes but about
      the use of samurai style of fighting against european (namely dark
      age and 10-12 century live steel) is something I can say a few
      things on.

      The one important thing I have found is that you cant be front row
      in a shield wall, your just another corpse especially if they have
      spearmen, you need to work more as a skirmisher, you just cant hold
      the line and be able to defend and attack.

      The main issues I face is the "the round eyed cowards who hide
      behind their shields!", if you come up against a skilled sheild
      user you can sometimes use stepping or dashing to get around
      them.... usually having to resort to fakes to land a blow. I.E.
      fake 2 head shots to either side head then come in for a blow under
      their shield and draw cut past going across the gut.
      The other most effective method of kills is to go for a setup, but
      this can only work a few times before they work out how to defeat
      it,
      *drop down to a low guard shifting your weight a little more forward
      *defend all blows but return to low guard
      *once a head shot is incoming, step in and slap parry the blow
      *continue past with a slice or reap drawcut, or to be safe step past
      and turn to face and can kill with a head blow or body shot.

      The other is to get a Naginata. The different stances and flowing
      style is not something every fighter faces so most get intimidated
      by it. Even the size can put some people off. I use a average size
      one of 2' blade on a 5 1/2' shaft, most get surprised at how fast it
      can move, and that the force of a good hit with the right weight
      ishizuki can stop a shield advance, and knock that shield down ready
      for a head blow.
      The problem with using a naginata is that its best moves cant be
      used as would be unsafe in live steel combat, and the rest require
      the right gauntlet for you to have the dexterity control and grip
      that is needed. I had to ditch my safe protective steel clamshell
      for a custom chainmaille mitten. I kept the tekko plate and have
      the index finger in its own slot and the last three in one. Just
      had to make sure have good 1/2" padding and your safe.

      anyway got a little offtrack then, for formal martial arts, I
      havent had much but the Bujinkan training has taught me alot, I
      have even taken to the field with no weapons and defended myself for
      a couple minutes, with just stepping out the way and stepping in and
      blocking them from the wrist or forearm, till one guy got a little
      over zealous and hit me in the mouth.
      I can comment on one other style but from a outside view. We have
      had one guy try to use kendo style and was always getting cleaned
      up. It seened he telegraphed his moves to much, dont know really if
      that was from the style or how he fought.

      Hope this helps

      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "David" <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
      >
      > Greetings noble cousins,
      >
      > I have been on an extended haitus from heavy weapons and am
      > considering returning to the field. Naturally, I would like to
      learn
      > in which direction SCA heavy weapons combat has gone. When last I
      > took to the field of honorable combat, the vast majority of
      fighters
      > were of the rhinohide or "win at all costs, losing is not an
      option"
      > varieties, hence my disillusion with it. (I am in Ansteorra) I
      have a
      > few simple questions for those who have formal martial weapons
      > training. (ie. kendo, kenjutsu, iaido, aikido, etc)
      >
      > 1. To what extent do you use your martial style on the field?
      Which
      > styles do you use?
      >
      > 2. How successful have you and/or your techniques been against
      > "traditional" SCA western european styles?
      >
      > ...and now for the eternal question...
      > 3. How do you think a real samurai would fare in combat against a
      > european fighter of the same skill level assuming each used only
      their
      > respective styles?
      >
      > (yes, I am looking for any edge I can garner against the round eyed
      > cowards who hide behind their shields!)
      >
      > humbly,
      > Ishikawa Moritake
      >
      > ps. for those of you who might have attended Steppes Warlord this
      > weekend, I hope you weren't rained out too badly.
      > IM
      >
    • Derek Estabrook
      There is still a lot of rhinohiding, a lot of whining he hit me too hard , and a lot of baronial,etc. politics. I ve studied some kenjutsu and I ve read a lot
      Message 2 of 6 , May 26, 2007
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        There is still a lot of rhinohiding, a lot of whining "he hit me too hard", and a lot of baronial,etc. politics.

        I've studied some kenjutsu and I've read a lot of quality works such as the Book of Five Rings and others. I don't claim to be an overall expert, but I have a good general knowledge and I've seen a few matchups such as you've described. My best friend is the son of a knight who has grown up fighting with the SCA and he matched up with a 3rd degree black belt sensei in kenjutsu and iaido who was new to the SCA. The kenjutsu man was skilled, but had a lot of time adjusting in the beginning. My friend was much more adaptable in the combat situations while the kenjutsu sensei was a lot more rigid and regimental in his style. After a few hours their matches became a closer to being equal, but I'm not sure a less skilled practicioner would have been able to adjust as well to unfamiliar styles. They were not even fighting radically different styles as they were fighting longsword vs longsword. I'd say it varies a lot. My friend is fairly skilled in the basics (though at times
        rusty) and has very, very good reflexes. He also has a sharp mind. I think combat has a lot of variances and standard SCA combat also has a lot of weaknesses. Adaptability is not one of them though. Quite often with martial arts adaptability is a big problem. It can become far too regimented and practioners fall into set routines and overly rigid combat systems. Combat has changed since the Mejii Era and it is also quite hard to compare modern systems with older ones. SCA combat is also far different than a lot of more period styles such as depicted in historical combat manuals. Its really hard to apply historical impetus to two people fighting in modern style without really going into it deep.

        As to the samurai question heres a good link that would answer your question better than I. You have to understand that with the type of question you asked you're going to get a lot of unknowledgable biased answers. Especially when dealing with the mysticism and myths of the samurai.

        www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm


        ---------------------------------
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      • aimee brooks
        That s one of the better writeups about the ever-controversial Knight vs Samurai that I ve read, very well done. -Hirokawa no Tsuru
        Message 3 of 6 , May 26, 2007
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          That's one of the better writeups about the ever-controversial "Knight
          vs Samurai" that I've read, very well done.
          -Hirokawa no Tsuru
        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... The fundamental flaw that I possibly see with this article is the possibility of misidentifying samurai with
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 4, 2007
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            Noble Cousins!

            Greetings from Solveig!

            > www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm

            The fundamental flaw that I possibly see with this article is the
            possibility of misidentifying "samurai" with "knights" when the
            samurai class should be identified with a class which includes
            yoemen. Basically, the samurai were a large class which included
            people whom you would think of as men at arms. The "knights"
            of medieval Europe are a somewhat more elite group which
            does not correspond with KSCA as KSCA corresponds more
            closely to elite orders of knighthood such as the Order of the
            Bath. Well, that's my two cents worth.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar





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