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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Datemono

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  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... While I do not know of an actual heraldic authority in premodern Japan, illustrated guidebooks showing the kamon,
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 9, 2006
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      Noble Cousins!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      > To my limited knowledge there was no registry of crests where as the
      > europeans developed rules for their heraldy.

      While I do not know of an actual heraldic authority in premodern Japan,
      illustrated guidebooks showing the kamon, standards, &c. associated
      with various individuals &c. were written and published. How early these
      were being published is something which I do not know.

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar
    • Brendan Barth
      Noble Cousin! I thank you for your information. I just wanted to comment on the term. I recieved the term for a Laurel with an MA in Japanese history. I do
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 10, 2006
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        Noble Cousin!

        I thank you for your information. I just wanted to comment on the term. I
        recieved the term for a Laurel with an MA in Japanese history. I do know
        that the term Datemono refers to the crest worn on the forhead of the
        helmet. Just wanted to get the correct information out there. I don't want
        this to sound as an attack. Again thank you for your information on the
        subject.

        Ashina no Karasu


        From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>
        Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Datemono
        Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 01:03:42 -0500

        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        > Are the datemono (helmet crests) on the kabuto associated with
        > either a
        > title, rank and/or family? Also, if so, what would be the
        > stipulation on
        > the datemono?

        I doubt that you have the correct term there. Generally speaking,
        there is no particular relationship between helmet crests and the
        other heraldry used by the wearer. I believe that you are asking
        about the actual crests immediately above the forehead and not simply
        weapon catching appendages of various sorts. As for you actual
        question, actual helmet crests appear to be the province of very high
        ranking generals. There is of course an exception to this in the form
        of certain helmets worn by police and similar units during the Edo
        period where there is a crest painted on the upturned front of a
        helmet which always reminds me of a doughboy helmet.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

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      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Are you really sure that you are remembering the term correctly? The problem that I am having with it is finding it
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 10, 2006
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          > I just wanted to comment on the term. I recieved the term for a
          > Laurel with an MA in Japanese history.

          Are you really sure that you are remembering the term correctly? The
          problem that I am having with it is
          finding it with the necessary meaning in any of the following:

          4-09-501503-9
          4-06-121009-2
          4-469-02115-6
          4-385-13343-3
          4-385-14000-6

          I suspect that you are trying to recall the term "maedatemono" which
          does exist in dictionaries. Actually,
          this term is quite generic and covers several different items that
          can be affixed to the front of helmets.
          For example, this term also covers "kuwagata" which are large
          appendages which project from the helmet.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
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