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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Datemono

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  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... While I do not know of an actual heraldic authority in premodern Japan, illustrated guidebooks showing the kamon,
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 9, 2006
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      Noble Cousins!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      > To my limited knowledge there was no registry of crests where as the
      > europeans developed rules for their heraldy.

      While I do not know of an actual heraldic authority in premodern Japan,
      illustrated guidebooks showing the kamon, standards, &c. associated
      with various individuals &c. were written and published. How early these
      were being published is something which I do not know.

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar
    • Solveig Throndardottir
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! The most commonly encounter item of this general sort is a small flag worn on the back of the helmet. This had the
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 9, 2006
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig! The most commonly encounter item of this
        general sort is a small flag worn on the back of the helmet. This had
        the practical purpose of distinguishing running enemy from running
        unit members. These little flags were typically simply decorated with
        horizontal stripes in livery colours.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar
      • Brendan Barth
        Noble Cousin! I thank you for your information. I just wanted to comment on the term. I recieved the term for a Laurel with an MA in Japanese history. I do
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 10, 2006
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          Noble Cousin!

          I thank you for your information. I just wanted to comment on the term. I
          recieved the term for a Laurel with an MA in Japanese history. I do know
          that the term Datemono refers to the crest worn on the forhead of the
          helmet. Just wanted to get the correct information out there. I don't want
          this to sound as an attack. Again thank you for your information on the
          subject.

          Ashina no Karasu


          From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>
          Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Datemono
          Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 01:03:42 -0500

          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          > Are the datemono (helmet crests) on the kabuto associated with
          > either a
          > title, rank and/or family? Also, if so, what would be the
          > stipulation on
          > the datemono?

          I doubt that you have the correct term there. Generally speaking,
          there is no particular relationship between helmet crests and the
          other heraldry used by the wearer. I believe that you are asking
          about the actual crests immediately above the forehead and not simply
          weapon catching appendages of various sorts. As for you actual
          question, actual helmet crests appear to be the province of very high
          ranking generals. There is of course an exception to this in the form
          of certain helmets worn by police and similar units during the Edo
          period where there is a crest painted on the upturned front of a
          helmet which always reminds me of a doughboy helmet.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

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        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Are you really sure that you are remembering the term correctly? The problem that I am having with it is finding it
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 10, 2006
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig!

            > I just wanted to comment on the term. I recieved the term for a
            > Laurel with an MA in Japanese history.

            Are you really sure that you are remembering the term correctly? The
            problem that I am having with it is
            finding it with the necessary meaning in any of the following:

            4-09-501503-9
            4-06-121009-2
            4-469-02115-6
            4-385-13343-3
            4-385-14000-6

            I suspect that you are trying to recall the term "maedatemono" which
            does exist in dictionaries. Actually,
            this term is quite generic and covers several different items that
            can be affixed to the front of helmets.
            For example, this term also covers "kuwagata" which are large
            appendages which project from the helmet.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar
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