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Re: Japanese Armor on Budget

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  • Miles Marker
    Just a tip, and the way I got my armour (it is not Japanese style) was to make it myself. I found an armour-smith who was willing to teach me how to make it
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
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      Just a tip, and the way I got my armour (it is not Japanese style) was
      to make it myself. I found an armour-smith who was willing to teach
      me how to make it and he even supplied many of the materials if I made
      other peices for him. I looked for this because I didn't have the
      money (I ended up spending about $250 of my own money, rather than
      $2500 which is what I am seeing for many complete sets) and it took me
      about 8 months (figure on waiting on custom armour too).

      I know that there are a number of patterns out on the internet with
      directions on what to do as I have searched for and found them. Some
      are really good, some are hard to read as they are translated
      Japanese. I am currently looking at them to make me a set of Japanese
      armour for myself, now that I have made some armour before and have
      many of the basics down. The one tip that I have seen is to really
      look at pictures of old Japanese armour and decide what you want
      before you even begin. Also looking at multiple "authentic pictures"
      will help you in making your look authentic.

      Taliesin
      Kingdom: Trimaris
      Shire: Bentonshire

      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wow, my message about armor got mangled. - Helena.To: sca-jml@...:
      akabara17@...: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 23:45:23 -0500Subject: [SCA-JML]
      Japanese Armor on Budget
      >
      >
      > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College
      student budget.Solution please?
      > __________________________________________________________
      > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
      > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Peters
      Start here: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/ Information on making armour. Even if you have no interest in making armour it will help you be able to ask the right
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
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        Start here: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/

        Information on making armour. Even if you have no interest in making
        armour it will help you be able to ask the right questions.

        Budget: http://www.gearedsteel.com/budgetbushido/index.html
        or http://www.alchemyarmory.com/Japanese.html

        More research and help here: http://tousando.proboards18.com/index.cgi?

        When you're ready to move up, e-mail me:
        http://www.blackhydraarmouries.com/SCAJapanese/J.htm

        >From: Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...>
        >Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: [SCA-JML] Japanese Armor on Budget
        >Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 23:45:23 -0500
        >
        >In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
        >budget.Solution please?

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      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... The hardest parts are of course the helmet and the gauntlets. I suggest investing money and effort in making a
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
          > budget.Solution please?

          The hardest parts are of course the helmet and the gauntlets. I
          suggest investing money and effort in making a
          Japanese style kabuto. You can, provided you know what your doing and
          have access to the tools, turn out a
          respectable kabuto for about $20.00. The gauntlets are the other big
          problem, and I will let others talk about
          their solutions. The other parts can generally be made out of
          plastic and lacing cord. Regardless, I am fairly
          confident that I know people with less disposable income than you
          have who are turned out in rather good
          looking equipment.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
        • b1laxson
          Odd that I should happen to choose to wander by this list today to see the asking of low-budget Japanese armor. Be sure to check this group s link list at:
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
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            Odd that I should happen to choose to wander by this list today to see
            the asking of low-budget Japanese armor.

            Be sure to check this group's link list at:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/links/Armour_000977359482/

            As others are pointed out the helm and gauntlet are the harder parts.
            I do not use self made for those put trust to skilled artisans. Notes
            no those immediately below followed by the rest of the kit:


            On the helm:

            I am still wearing an early Konrad helm even though its Normanish. A
            kabuto can be self made and there are patterns out there. However,
            check that the pattern you are using is intended for SCA use. There
            are many "ceremonial" designs that do not meet SCA standards. Most
            notable is the presence of those curved bits on the sides near the
            temples and large crests... those we Marshalls often disallow due to
            the possible damaging of the opponents rattan weapon... which in turn
            puts you and others at risk.

            On the gauntlets:
            There is no proper Japanese gauntlet that I have found/seen that keeps
            up to the SCA-impact sport. You will likely need to get some "western"
            ones. You can however extend your shirt/arm covering to cover them up.


            Torso:
            There are indeed many patterns out there including those under this
            group's link list (see above).
            The larger number of plates/scales reflect a richer/higher samurai.
            There are some examples of Ashigaru "grunts" wearing large plate armor.
            I also made up my own, known to the pleasure or horror of
            Ealdormereans. Given that it is based on large broad plates it is
            fairly simple to make. Only the shoulder tops have 2-way curves. Most
            is just mono curves to go around my body.
            Many real samurai armor have zero coverage on the spine. Some had it
            as an added piece. Some nickname it a "coward's plate." I had the
            misfortune in the mid-90s to fall off a roof. My almost full height
            single rear plate is what I call a "built in spinal board". You rarely
            will get there but I do suggest if the pattern you use is missing
            spinal coverage you add it in somehow.

            Arms:
            You have a few choices here. There are examples of mail covering for
            the arms and of course those famous sideboards. Once again the cutting
            nature of the katana led to armor being poor for SCA-impact sport. You
            will need non-japanese elbow protection.
            Some wear european standard-SCA elbows but a kimono over top.
            I did something else wierd for my own armor and used a closing
            hardshell forearm (which has some precedence) and added one tiny and
            one large plate that articulates to cover the back side of the elbow.
            My upper arms have earned some reputation (good&bad) as among the
            largest wings ever seen in Ealdormere. There is indeed precedence for
            them being that big. The size is such that they are my upper arm
            coverage reaching almost all the way to aforementioned elbow plate
            when my arm is extended.

            Legs:
            Well once again we find that the Japanese cutting weapon style doesnt
            match to well to the smack and impact of SCA fighting. Some wear
            European standard SCA legs&knees covered by baggy pants.
            There is common on the samuri shin protection but the knee protection
            is flexible, thus not upto SCA standard.
            Only rarely is there a picture showing these shin guards coming up
            high enough to offer hard protection to the knee. This is the style I
            adapted with the greaves extending up the side of my knee. Hidden
            under pants is articulated U shaped pieces that complete the knee
            coverage no matter how I move. This leading to an uncommon "ankle up"
            rather than "thigh down" knee armor.
            For the thighs we also run into the samurai and SCA not working
            together. There are even references to samurai taking off their thigh
            guards because they are so cumbersome.
            Thus for thighs I recommend you wear something that gets covered. As I
            was working with plastic this is a series of 4" wide strips cut to
            different lengths, crudely laced together and covered by the same
            baggy pants that cover the knee articulations.


            >phew<

            I probably have my patterns for some of these around someplace on my
            hard drive. If you want them email me directly at b1laxson@...

            The biggest expense for your armor is going to be the choice of
            material. First of all the helmet requires metal as per our Marshall's
            handbook. The rest can be something else.

            For the "sam-like green" I used 3/16" ABS plastic obtained in a 4'x8'
            sheet from PlasticWorld near Steeles&Dufferin. I am actually thinking
            of trying 1/8" (2/16) the next time. Cost of the plastic was around
            $350 - $400 IIRC. This sheet provided enough for torso, legs and arms.
            Switching to 1/8" would also reduce the cost.

            Some patterns you will find on the web use a much lower cost of
            plastic barrels. Quite suitable for starter armor.

            A standard CDN Tire heat gun is sufficient to heat up the plastic,
            provided you also learn to apply water to the outer layers when the
            heated area gets to 'melt' before the heat goes through. By cooling
            off the outside the heat already placed on the inside has time to
            migrate deeper into the plastic. Alternating heat and water you can
            make plastic of even 3/16" bendable. While holding it in shape dose it
            in a tub of water.
            The only real restraint I found is that compound/saddle curves...
            curves that bend in two different directions like a bowl... where very
            hard to do. Also the longer pieces, like the 12"+ front torso plate,
            where hard to heat the whole bend line at once.

            It should be added that large curve plates are very good at
            deflection. At Trillium Baron Cynred commented that my armor was "very
            skippy". He repeatedly told me not to take his spear thrusts as it was
            sliding off... which really is what armor is supposed to cause happen.

            >phew<

            Brian Goodheart the Green
            Green, not just for Europeans


            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...> wrote:
            >
            > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
            budget.Solution please?
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
            > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Kaneki no Ryuto Akimitsu
            ... budget.Solution please? ... On the nature of Gauntlets that work for those of us of heavy fighting calibur, or some such poo-hockey... The pattern by Sir
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 11, 2006
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...> wrote:
              >
              > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
              budget.Solution please?
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
              > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >


              On the nature of Gauntlets that work for those of us of heavy
              fighting calibur, or some such poo-hockey...

              The pattern by Sir Hadi works if you don't mind having a mitten to
              cover your whole hand at once. To give credit where credit is due,
              his is constructed with leather. In some kingdoms, this works.
              Being as most of my fighting injuries happen to my hands, I
              personally do not suggest it.

              My modifications to Sir Hadi's pattern, as strange as that may be,
              are mostly lacing and plastic. Yes basic barrel plastic and camping
              cord lacing. It works for me; mind you, I am covering the whole
              thing in a mitten and attaching them directly to my kote.

              This makes a very striking spike to most 'Purists'. They like just
              the pieces on the back of the hand, where that leaves the fingers
              open. If you do your research, they you will see that even full hand
              pieces were toggled to the kote in later periods.

              My biggest tip:
              Research, make a pattern, research some more, try western gauntlets
              out, research, make a second pattern, and then be ready to scrap all
              but your research in the pursuit of something that works for you.

              On the subject of a budget:
              Surplus stores usually have a whole barrel for less than $10;
              sometimes as much as $20. Even so, you can make a whole set of armor
              out of one barrel. Plastic is my suggestion.


              That's my two koku for the day.

              Kaneki no Ryoto Akimitsu
              - Goshi of Uroko
              - Eldren Hills, Ansteorra
            • Maddalena Alessandra
              Armour on a budget, If you decide to go plastic check with any farmers in your area raising horses or cows for plastic feed barrels (50 gallon). They might
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 11, 2006
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                Armour on a budget,
                If you decide to go plastic check with any farmers in
                your area raising horses or cows for plastic feed
                barrels (50 gallon). They might give you a good
                deal(free even) since they are commonly considered the
                leftover container and as such useless/trash. Note
                you might possible need 2 depending on you armour
                style.
                I am currently replacing some of my armour with
                plastic for weight reasons

                Best of luck,
                Baronessa Maddalena Alessandra Godwin
                Blue Sapphyre for Gleann Abhann

                --- Kaneki no Ryuto Akimitsu <sokkaiya23@...>
                wrote:

                > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson
                > <akabara17@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints:
                > College student
                > budget.Solution please?
                > >
                >>
                > On the subject of a budget:
                > Surplus stores usually have a whole barrel for less
                > than $10;
                > sometimes as much as $20. Even so, you can make a
                > whole set of armor
                > out of one barrel. Plastic is my suggestion.
                >
                >
                > That's my two koku for the day.
                >
                > Kaneki no Ryoto Akimitsu
                > - Goshi of Uroko
                > - Eldren Hills, Ansteorra
                >
                >




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