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Japanese Armor on Budget

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  • Kathy Dickson
    In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student budget.Solution please? _________________________________________________________________ Express
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 7, 2006
      In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student budget.Solution please?
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    • Kathy Dickson
      Wow, my message about armor got mangled. - Helena.To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.comFrom: akabara17@hotmail.comDate: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 23:45:23 -0500Subject: [SCA-JML]
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 7, 2006
        Wow, my message about armor got mangled. - Helena.To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.comFrom: akabara17@...: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 23:45:23 -0500Subject: [SCA-JML] Japanese Armor on Budget


















        In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student budget.Solution please?
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      • Miles Marker
        Just a tip, and the way I got my armour (it is not Japanese style) was to make it myself. I found an armour-smith who was willing to teach me how to make it
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
          Just a tip, and the way I got my armour (it is not Japanese style) was
          to make it myself. I found an armour-smith who was willing to teach
          me how to make it and he even supplied many of the materials if I made
          other peices for him. I looked for this because I didn't have the
          money (I ended up spending about $250 of my own money, rather than
          $2500 which is what I am seeing for many complete sets) and it took me
          about 8 months (figure on waiting on custom armour too).

          I know that there are a number of patterns out on the internet with
          directions on what to do as I have searched for and found them. Some
          are really good, some are hard to read as they are translated
          Japanese. I am currently looking at them to make me a set of Japanese
          armour for myself, now that I have made some armour before and have
          many of the basics down. The one tip that I have seen is to really
          look at pictures of old Japanese armour and decide what you want
          before you even begin. Also looking at multiple "authentic pictures"
          will help you in making your look authentic.

          Taliesin
          Kingdom: Trimaris
          Shire: Bentonshire

          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...> wrote:
          >
          > Wow, my message about armor got mangled. - Helena.To: sca-jml@...:
          akabara17@...: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 23:45:23 -0500Subject: [SCA-JML]
          Japanese Armor on Budget
          >
          >
          > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College
          student budget.Solution please?
          > __________________________________________________________
          > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
          > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Lyon
          I would refer you to the Clan Yama Kaminari web site. They have directions on creating very good armor out of barrel plastic.
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
            I would refer you to the Clan Yama Kaminari web site. They have directions
            on creating very good armor out of barrel plastic.
            http://www.yamakaminari.com/Armor/index.html

            I hope this is helpful.


            On 12/8/06, Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > "You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I
            > thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible
            >
            > things that happen to us come becuase we actually deserve them? So, now I
            > take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the
            > universe."
            > -Marcus to Franklin in Babylon 5
            >
            > John Lyon
            > aka The Ugly Dragon
            > aka Kita Jiru Toramassa


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Peters
            Start here: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/ Information on making armour. Even if you have no interest in making armour it will help you be able to ask the right
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
              Start here: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/

              Information on making armour. Even if you have no interest in making
              armour it will help you be able to ask the right questions.

              Budget: http://www.gearedsteel.com/budgetbushido/index.html
              or http://www.alchemyarmory.com/Japanese.html

              More research and help here: http://tousando.proboards18.com/index.cgi?

              When you're ready to move up, e-mail me:
              http://www.blackhydraarmouries.com/SCAJapanese/J.htm

              >From: Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...>
              >Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: [SCA-JML] Japanese Armor on Budget
              >Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 23:45:23 -0500
              >
              >In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
              >budget.Solution please?

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            • Solveig Throndardottir
              Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... The hardest parts are of course the helmet and the gauntlets. I suggest investing money and effort in making a
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
                Noble Cousin!

                Greetings from Solveig!

                > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
                > budget.Solution please?

                The hardest parts are of course the helmet and the gauntlets. I
                suggest investing money and effort in making a
                Japanese style kabuto. You can, provided you know what your doing and
                have access to the tools, turn out a
                respectable kabuto for about $20.00. The gauntlets are the other big
                problem, and I will let others talk about
                their solutions. The other parts can generally be made out of
                plastic and lacing cord. Regardless, I am fairly
                confident that I know people with less disposable income than you
                have who are turned out in rather good
                looking equipment.

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar
              • b1laxson
                Odd that I should happen to choose to wander by this list today to see the asking of low-budget Japanese armor. Be sure to check this group s link list at:
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 8, 2006
                  Odd that I should happen to choose to wander by this list today to see
                  the asking of low-budget Japanese armor.

                  Be sure to check this group's link list at:

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/links/Armour_000977359482/

                  As others are pointed out the helm and gauntlet are the harder parts.
                  I do not use self made for those put trust to skilled artisans. Notes
                  no those immediately below followed by the rest of the kit:


                  On the helm:

                  I am still wearing an early Konrad helm even though its Normanish. A
                  kabuto can be self made and there are patterns out there. However,
                  check that the pattern you are using is intended for SCA use. There
                  are many "ceremonial" designs that do not meet SCA standards. Most
                  notable is the presence of those curved bits on the sides near the
                  temples and large crests... those we Marshalls often disallow due to
                  the possible damaging of the opponents rattan weapon... which in turn
                  puts you and others at risk.

                  On the gauntlets:
                  There is no proper Japanese gauntlet that I have found/seen that keeps
                  up to the SCA-impact sport. You will likely need to get some "western"
                  ones. You can however extend your shirt/arm covering to cover them up.


                  Torso:
                  There are indeed many patterns out there including those under this
                  group's link list (see above).
                  The larger number of plates/scales reflect a richer/higher samurai.
                  There are some examples of Ashigaru "grunts" wearing large plate armor.
                  I also made up my own, known to the pleasure or horror of
                  Ealdormereans. Given that it is based on large broad plates it is
                  fairly simple to make. Only the shoulder tops have 2-way curves. Most
                  is just mono curves to go around my body.
                  Many real samurai armor have zero coverage on the spine. Some had it
                  as an added piece. Some nickname it a "coward's plate." I had the
                  misfortune in the mid-90s to fall off a roof. My almost full height
                  single rear plate is what I call a "built in spinal board". You rarely
                  will get there but I do suggest if the pattern you use is missing
                  spinal coverage you add it in somehow.

                  Arms:
                  You have a few choices here. There are examples of mail covering for
                  the arms and of course those famous sideboards. Once again the cutting
                  nature of the katana led to armor being poor for SCA-impact sport. You
                  will need non-japanese elbow protection.
                  Some wear european standard-SCA elbows but a kimono over top.
                  I did something else wierd for my own armor and used a closing
                  hardshell forearm (which has some precedence) and added one tiny and
                  one large plate that articulates to cover the back side of the elbow.
                  My upper arms have earned some reputation (good&bad) as among the
                  largest wings ever seen in Ealdormere. There is indeed precedence for
                  them being that big. The size is such that they are my upper arm
                  coverage reaching almost all the way to aforementioned elbow plate
                  when my arm is extended.

                  Legs:
                  Well once again we find that the Japanese cutting weapon style doesnt
                  match to well to the smack and impact of SCA fighting. Some wear
                  European standard SCA legs&knees covered by baggy pants.
                  There is common on the samuri shin protection but the knee protection
                  is flexible, thus not upto SCA standard.
                  Only rarely is there a picture showing these shin guards coming up
                  high enough to offer hard protection to the knee. This is the style I
                  adapted with the greaves extending up the side of my knee. Hidden
                  under pants is articulated U shaped pieces that complete the knee
                  coverage no matter how I move. This leading to an uncommon "ankle up"
                  rather than "thigh down" knee armor.
                  For the thighs we also run into the samurai and SCA not working
                  together. There are even references to samurai taking off their thigh
                  guards because they are so cumbersome.
                  Thus for thighs I recommend you wear something that gets covered. As I
                  was working with plastic this is a series of 4" wide strips cut to
                  different lengths, crudely laced together and covered by the same
                  baggy pants that cover the knee articulations.


                  >phew<

                  I probably have my patterns for some of these around someplace on my
                  hard drive. If you want them email me directly at b1laxson@...

                  The biggest expense for your armor is going to be the choice of
                  material. First of all the helmet requires metal as per our Marshall's
                  handbook. The rest can be something else.

                  For the "sam-like green" I used 3/16" ABS plastic obtained in a 4'x8'
                  sheet from PlasticWorld near Steeles&Dufferin. I am actually thinking
                  of trying 1/8" (2/16) the next time. Cost of the plastic was around
                  $350 - $400 IIRC. This sheet provided enough for torso, legs and arms.
                  Switching to 1/8" would also reduce the cost.

                  Some patterns you will find on the web use a much lower cost of
                  plastic barrels. Quite suitable for starter armor.

                  A standard CDN Tire heat gun is sufficient to heat up the plastic,
                  provided you also learn to apply water to the outer layers when the
                  heated area gets to 'melt' before the heat goes through. By cooling
                  off the outside the heat already placed on the inside has time to
                  migrate deeper into the plastic. Alternating heat and water you can
                  make plastic of even 3/16" bendable. While holding it in shape dose it
                  in a tub of water.
                  The only real restraint I found is that compound/saddle curves...
                  curves that bend in two different directions like a bowl... where very
                  hard to do. Also the longer pieces, like the 12"+ front torso plate,
                  where hard to heat the whole bend line at once.

                  It should be added that large curve plates are very good at
                  deflection. At Trillium Baron Cynred commented that my armor was "very
                  skippy". He repeatedly told me not to take his spear thrusts as it was
                  sliding off... which really is what armor is supposed to cause happen.

                  >phew<

                  Brian Goodheart the Green
                  Green, not just for Europeans


                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
                  budget.Solution please?
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
                  > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Kaneki no Ryuto Akimitsu
                  ... budget.Solution please? ... On the nature of Gauntlets that work for those of us of heavy fighting calibur, or some such poo-hockey... The pattern by Sir
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 11, 2006
                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson <akabara17@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints: College student
                    budget.Solution please?
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
                    > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >


                    On the nature of Gauntlets that work for those of us of heavy
                    fighting calibur, or some such poo-hockey...

                    The pattern by Sir Hadi works if you don't mind having a mitten to
                    cover your whole hand at once. To give credit where credit is due,
                    his is constructed with leather. In some kingdoms, this works.
                    Being as most of my fighting injuries happen to my hands, I
                    personally do not suggest it.

                    My modifications to Sir Hadi's pattern, as strange as that may be,
                    are mostly lacing and plastic. Yes basic barrel plastic and camping
                    cord lacing. It works for me; mind you, I am covering the whole
                    thing in a mitten and attaching them directly to my kote.

                    This makes a very striking spike to most 'Purists'. They like just
                    the pieces on the back of the hand, where that leaves the fingers
                    open. If you do your research, they you will see that even full hand
                    pieces were toggled to the kote in later periods.

                    My biggest tip:
                    Research, make a pattern, research some more, try western gauntlets
                    out, research, make a second pattern, and then be ready to scrap all
                    but your research in the pursuit of something that works for you.

                    On the subject of a budget:
                    Surplus stores usually have a whole barrel for less than $10;
                    sometimes as much as $20. Even so, you can make a whole set of armor
                    out of one barrel. Plastic is my suggestion.


                    That's my two koku for the day.

                    Kaneki no Ryoto Akimitsu
                    - Goshi of Uroko
                    - Eldren Hills, Ansteorra
                  • Maddalena Alessandra
                    Armour on a budget, If you decide to go plastic check with any farmers in your area raising horses or cows for plastic feed barrels (50 gallon). They might
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 11, 2006
                      Armour on a budget,
                      If you decide to go plastic check with any farmers in
                      your area raising horses or cows for plastic feed
                      barrels (50 gallon). They might give you a good
                      deal(free even) since they are commonly considered the
                      leftover container and as such useless/trash. Note
                      you might possible need 2 depending on you armour
                      style.
                      I am currently replacing some of my armour with
                      plastic for weight reasons

                      Best of luck,
                      Baronessa Maddalena Alessandra Godwin
                      Blue Sapphyre for Gleann Abhann

                      --- Kaneki no Ryuto Akimitsu <sokkaiya23@...>
                      wrote:

                      > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Dickson
                      > <akabara17@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > In need of Japanese-style armor.Constraints:
                      > College student
                      > budget.Solution please?
                      > >
                      >>
                      > On the subject of a budget:
                      > Surplus stores usually have a whole barrel for less
                      > than $10;
                      > sometimes as much as $20. Even so, you can make a
                      > whole set of armor
                      > out of one barrel. Plastic is my suggestion.
                      >
                      >
                      > That's my two koku for the day.
                      >
                      > Kaneki no Ryoto Akimitsu
                      > - Goshi of Uroko
                      > - Eldren Hills, Ansteorra
                      >
                      >




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