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Re: Evolution of Color?

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  • Miles Marker
    I think that it is important to use what you believe to be as the color and call it that, even if it is just because you like that shade. What most people
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 9, 2006
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      I think that it is important to use what you believe to be as the
      color and call it that, even if it is just because you like that
      shade. What most people call Teal I think of as Cyan, my Teal color
      is More green-blue than blue-green. And of course when you are dying
      clothing (espcially in earlier time periods) you never got a great
      consistancy of color, one batch would be much darker and richer than
      another. Then comes washing the cloth which would cause fade, etc.
      If you like a shade better than the other, or interpret it to be a
      particular way and you have done your research to prove it can be that
      way, they why fuss? Use what you like. What if the color was derived
      from a particular plant and actually had a different color to it
      depending on where you were, but all areas called it the same color?
      I am currently using a name with an unusual pronunciation, because it
      is what I like. The name Taliesin has been written about by 4
      different scollars and has four varying pronunciations. I am using
      the lightest of these because it is what I like. I pronounce it as if
      it was Talisin, rather than pronouncing it the more forceful way as
      Tally-es-en. (note: name is not of Japanesse origin)

      Miles
      Taliesin (SCA)


      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "deanna.baran" <deannabaran@...> wrote:
      >
      > Does anyone have a good resource they could recommend as to the
      > evolution of Japanese colors? I'm currently researching colors for
      > something Heian.
      >
      > "Ao" is complicated enough already, but to use it as an example, in
      > the Dalby book, it's reproduced as something sort of teal-ish green.
      > (Not exact, but say, something along the lines of #1EC1D9 .) According
      > to http://www.color-guide.com/e_blue.htm , a Japanese site about
      > Japanese colors, ao is more of a primary blue/cobalt kind of color
      > (something like a #0C00CC ). According to the excellent site,
      > http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garb.ch14.html , Ao becomes
      > something of a hunter green (something like a #465B22 ).
      >
      > The forbidden "kurenai" also presents similar problems. Dalby and
      > Sengokudaimyou have something similar to #CC0000, but there's a
      > mysterious "karakurenai" that's #CC001B according to color-guide,
      > which is calling plain "kurenai" as a much more rose-pink #CB4F6F.
      > Wikipedia makes mention of a restricted color called Ōtan, #FF4E20,
      > which better seems to match the "orangey-scarlet" that kurenai is
      > usually described as being.
      >
      > I know that color is largely a matter of perception (as well as
      > variations between monitor settings), but there's a big difference
      > between blue-green, hunter green, and primary blue. When I make my
      > outfit, I don't think I'll have a Sei Shonagon to make fun of my poor
      > choice of shade... but I'd like to not be totally off in the wrong
      > corner of the spectrum. :o)
      >
      > Thanks for your help,
      > -Deanna
      >
    • Solveig Throndardottir
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I don t quite understand what you are looking for. There are fairly accessible sources for Heian color combinations
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 9, 2006
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        > Does anyone have a good resource they could recommend as to the
        > evolution of Japanese colors? I'm currently researching colors for
        > something Heian.

        I don't quite understand what you are looking for. There are fairly
        accessible sources for Heian color combinations and that sort of thing.

        > "Ao" is complicated enough already, but to use it as an example,

        Ao is not complicated at all. It is a broad spectrum color word like
        blue, green, or yellow. In the case of Ao, it spans blue and green.

        > in the Dalby book, it's reproduced as something sort of teal-ish
        > green.
        > (Not exact, but say, something along the lines of #1EC1D9 .)

        Again, it is not a specific chroma, it is a broad category.

        Check out the following:

        http://www.demoivre.org/Japan/textiles/colors/

        The color names are from Kokugo Kokubungaku Techô

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar
      • Franzi
        ... I don t have anything easily accessible and English-language to recommend, but I believe Dalby cites her source on colors. It s Nihon Shikimei Taikan
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 9, 2006
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          On Oct 9, 2006, at 1:00 AM, deanna.baran wrote:
          > Does anyone have a good resource they could recommend as to the
          > evolution of Japanese colors? I'm currently researching colors for
          > something Heian.
          I don't have anything easily accessible and English-language to
          recommend, but I believe Dalby cites her source on colors. It's
          Nihon Shikimei Taikan (Encyclopedia of Japanese Color Terms) by
          Uemura Rokurou and Yamazaki Katsuhiro. I would guess that it's
          impossible to find, but there could be something else similar. Are
          you willing to waste some money at amazon.co.jp?
          > "Ao" is complicated enough already, but to use it as an example, in
          > the Dalby book, it's reproduced as something sort of teal-ish green.
          Have a look at p.232. Dalby is quite explicit about what 'ao'
          covered in period and what it covers today. The particular color
          shown in the illustrations is probably her best guess as to the
          version used in that outfit, but it isn't meant to define the entire
          possible range of 'ao'. On p.233, Dalby states that "kurenai is
          usually translated as scarlet or crimson, although during the Heian
          period it seems to have been less harsh or aggressively red than
          those names suggest in English..." (Do have another look at the
          Dalby book--I think she answers a lot of these questions somewhere in
          the text, but you may have to hunt around.)


          --Franzi
        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Not at all impossible: Nihon shikimei taikan / Rokuro Uemura; Katsuhiro Yamazaki 1943 Japanese Book 83, 5 p. : ill.
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 9, 2006
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig!
            > I don't have anything easily accessible and English-language to
            > recommend, but I believe Dalby cites her source on colors. It's
            > Nihon Shikimei Taikan (Encyclopedia of Japanese Color Terms) by
            > Uemura Rokurou and Yamazaki Katsuhiro. I would guess that it's
            > impossible to find, but there could be something else similar.
            Not at all impossible:


            Nihon shikimei taikan /
            Rokuro Uemura; Katsuhiro Yamazaki
            1943
            Japanese
            Book 83, 5 p. : ill. ; 22 cm.
            Tokyo : Kocho Shorin,
            Availability:
            Check the catalogs in your library.
            Libraries worldwide that own item: 8
            Entry:
            19920902
            Update:
            20041209
            Accession No:
            OCLC: 33767420
            Database:
            WorldCat

            As for "aoi" itself. Kodansha Kogojiten claims that the range of
            colors from blue to green is the primary meaning.
            However, there are other meanings including GRAY or silvery in the
            context of the "Awo'uma" festival. This festival
            is written with either the kanji for ao or the kanji for shiro, but
            is read as "awo'uma". To confuse things even more,
            "ao" can be used in reference to certain horses with blue/black
            coats. kodansha goes on to note that while the
            horses in the "Awo'uma" festival originally had "awo" coats, this was
            chaged to white "shiro" (white) coats during
            the Heian period.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • deanna.baran
            Thank you to everyone for your input. I have zero capacity for pairing colors, so everyone s comments have helped me greatly. Thanks! -Deanna
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 10, 2006
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              Thank you to everyone for your input. I have zero capacity for pairing
              colors, so everyone's comments have helped me greatly.

              Thanks!
              -Deanna
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