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Re: Mon and law and names oh my

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  • Kass McGann
    ... can ... discussing ... the ... isn t ... try to ... Not necessary, Godric. You and Seamus both make good points. When the SCA started, it was a theme
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 1, 2000
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      > I really don't mean to offend anyone, but I realize, too that this
      can
      > raise many different feelings in people. While I think that
      discussing
      > our place as Japanese personae or students of Japanese history in
      the
      > Society is relevant, a large discussion on what the Society is or
      isn't
      > might be better suited to be eventually taken off the list. I'll
      try to
      > shut up now.

      Not necessary, Godric. You and Seamus both make good points. When
      the SCA started, it was a theme party. Today, it is something a bit
      different from what began back in the 60s in Berkeley. Some people
      in our Society are making high-level replicas and doing some stunning
      experimental archeology. Others are wearing sweatpants and T-shirt
      under their plastic armour.

      My general opinion on non-Western persona is if they tell me I can't
      be one, I won't. I do 16th century Irish too. I could live without
      Lady Fujiwara. But if they come down with that ruling, then they
      have to outlaw pre-600 personae and post-1600 personae, and all those
      made-up personae we see running around when the weather gets warm
      enough to wear leather and fur bikinis. <smirk>

      I do re-enactment with other "more serious" groups as well. I do
      15th century Swiss Burgundian Wars, Battle of Hastings (1066), ECW,
      Swedes from the Thirty Years War, among others. I like the SCA
      because of the breadth of what we do. Court wouldn't be so
      interesting if there weren't so many people there. Court in my other
      groups is small and you can't really lose yourself in the idea that
      this guy is King because you just plain know him too well!

      I like what we do. I would love for everyone to have authentic
      persona. But I don't care where we're all from. As Godric said, it
      is much more likely for a 14th century Japanese persona to talk to a
      14th century Italian than a 14th century Italian to talk to a 13th
      century Italian!

      Kass
      aka Fujiwara no Aoi-hime
    • Barbara Nostrand
      Noble Cousin! ... Although folks who are against non-European persona may sometimes dress their position up with historical argument, the root reason is
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 1, 2000
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        Noble Cousin!

        >Why are many people in the SCA so against Non European persona? The letters
        >are not ESAC. I would think the diversity and knowledge from all of the
        >other people interested in this aspect would be welcome. I know I welcome
        >it. Its fun!

        Although folks who are against non-European persona may sometimes dress
        their position up with historical argument, the root reason is primarily
        emotional. It has to do with people's feelings about what the middle ages
        and renaisance looked like. Most people see popular movies and undergo
        grammar school history courses before they begin studying our period of
        interest. Consequently, some folks want rustic saxon yomen slugging it
        out with Normans, or knights in shining armour from the tournament
        period or want saga period Vikings as seen in movies like "The Vikings".
        This is the sort of thing that is going on at the emotional level.
        Documenting contact or just about anything else is not likely to change
        people's feelings.

        My opinion is that Society definitions intended to support shared
        fantasy are inherently much more limiting than definitions based
        upon history.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar
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      • Barbara Nostrand
        Baron Seamus! I first learned about the Society from a To Tell The Truth program in AS single digits and actually made it into the Society in AS XI. There sure
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 1, 2000
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          Baron Seamus!

          I first learned about the Society from a To Tell The Truth program in AS
          single digits and actually made it into the Society in AS XI. There sure
          wasn't any "mission" of the Society in AS XI. For that matter, there was
          an Imperium and Imperial Electors not some silly BoD. Further, people
          were seriously considering moving out into the woods and living medieval
          (some actually tried to do this and are still more or less in the woods).
          A hot topic of discussion back then was "were are the serfs?"

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          Not quite as moldy in the Society as Baron Seamus but still seriously
          crusty.
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        • elmar schmeisser
          ... can t ... without ... Had to go there too - I have a western persona (1560 s Londonized Scot) as well as the same year Japanese. The various awards had
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 2, 2000
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            --- In sca-jml@egroups.com, "Kass McGann" <historian@r...> wrote:
            ...
            > My general opinion on non-Western persona is if they tell me I
            can't
            > be one, I won't. I do 16th century Irish too. I could live
            without
            > Lady Fujiwara

            Had to go there too - I have a western persona (1560's Londonized
            Scot) as well as the same year Japanese. The various "awards" had to
            go to the Scot (Seamus), but with my household, I was Jutte.

            - elmar
          • Kass McGann
            ... to ... I wouldn t say I *had* to develop a Western persona, Elmar. After all, I have studied all the extant Irish textiles and I just couldn t see not
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 2, 2000
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              > Had to go there too - I have a western persona (1560's Londonized
              > Scot) as well as the same year Japanese. The various "awards" had
              to
              > go to the Scot (Seamus), but with my household, I was Jutte.

              I wouldn't say I *had* to develop a Western persona, Elmar. After
              all, I have studied all the extant Irish textiles and I just couldn't
              see not using that info in the SCA.

              To date, all of my awards were awarded to Fujiwara no Aoi. Only my
              Maunche was awarded to Caisin nic Annaidh, but I was told quite
              emphatically before the populace at Court that both Lady Fujiwara and
              Lady Caisin were receiving the accolade.

              And the East isn't usually known for being liberal-thinking... ;)

              My Laurel, Ohashi-katsutoshi, was the first Japanese persona to be
              given Laurels in the East Kingdom. He has no Western persona, though
              he "dresses down" sometimes...

              Kass
              aka Fujiwara no Aoi-hime
              and staying that way!
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... You might have better luck if you try the Japanese name, Nihongo daibunten. Since it s really something that s only available in Japanese that s the
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 2, 2000
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                Joshua Badgley wrote:

                > I am looking for a copy of the Rodriguez's famous book on Japanese
                > grammar, but can't seem to find one. I have put in an ILL (Inter-library
                > loan) request, but after talking to them, it looks like it might be handy
                > to see what kind of information I can gather her as to what copies and
                > publications are available. I know that Hiraizumi-dono has one copy, and
                > wondered if he or others might be able to give me a helping hand on
                > tracking down this elusive source. Any help would be appreciated.
                >

                You might have better luck if you try the Japanese name, "Nihongo
                daibunten." Since it's really something that's only available "in Japanese"
                that's the title the publishers and libraries tend to use.


                Effingham
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