Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Beading projects

Expand Messages
  • Melissa Russell
    I wanted to incorporate something I enjoy into the SCA and give myself a project that I could research and learn from instead of just spending a bunch of money
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 7 8:40 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      I wanted to incorporate something I enjoy into the SCA and give myself a
      project that I could research and learn from instead of just spending a
      bunch of money on a crafting materials that would never leave a box. I'd
      love to do embroidery or painting, but I don't have the patience for either.
      (Although, the page on Sensu making is incredibly tempting...)

      In looking around the internet, I found that a lot of notible beaders and
      beadweavers are Russian and Japanese, but couldn't turn up anything beyond
      modern art. I thought that I'd see much more than I have, thereby prompting
      my question to the list. I figured someone would have seen something along
      the way and would be able to share it.

      I've seen prayer beads, crude strands of rock for necklaces and netsuke. I
      was just amazed that such an artistic culture (who seem to put a lot of
      spiritual value on certain stones and elements) wouldn't show beads more
      prominantly and assumed that I was just missing some essential step in my
      research.

      It makes sense, though, that if they lived in their clothing and sat
      directly on floors, that they wouldn't incorporate annoying rocks into
      garments. Talk about the princess and the pea! I just don't understand how
      they would have gold-leafed their clothes but not have sewn in something
      shiney.

      But what about hats, hairpins or lanyards? How about pearls? They were
      popular in China and India.

      I'm just curious.



      From: "wodeford" <wodeford@...>
      May I ask why you are so heart set on beading?

      I have 0 evidence of beadwork as garment trim in any of my textile
      books for our period in Japan. (Note, I do not say they never did it.
      I cannot prove they never did it. On the other hand I cannot prove
      they did.) I did go looking and found a website while googling
      "Japanese beadwork" that says certain types of bead embroidery got
      popular during the Meiji period (19th century).
    • wodeford
      ... Tsk tsk. You, my dear lady, should check out a collegium or university type event in your area. I ve had the opportunity to try my hand at wood carving
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 7 10:50 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa Russell" <virusq@...> wrote:
        >
        > I wanted to incorporate something I enjoy into the SCA and give
        > myself a project that I could research and learn from instead of
        > just spending a bunch of money on a crafting materials that would
        > never leave a box.

        Tsk tsk. You, my dear lady, should check out a collegium or university
        type event in your area. I've had the opportunity to try my hand at
        wood carving (liked it a lot, explains the sensu experiments, doesn't
        it?), terra cotta sculpture (liked it a lot), metalwork (so so),
        lampwork bead making (hated it), fingerloop braiding.... First hit
        might even be free or only include a modest materials fee. You might
        find something you like.

        Certain types of bead work ARE appropriate to certain cultures.
        (Byzantium and Elizabethan England are two I can think of.)
        Unfortunately Japan isn't one of them.

        > I'd love to do embroidery or painting, but I don't have the patience
        > for either.
        Beading would make me psychotic. ;->

        > I've seen prayer beads, crude strands of rock for necklaces and
        > netsuke. I was just amazed that such an artistic culture (who seem
        > to put a lot of spiritual value on certain stones and elements)
        > wouldn't show beads more prominantly and assumed that I was just
        > missing some essential step in my research.
        Many of those spiritual and intellectual values are rooted in China.
        Say that an ancient Chinese Buddhist text makes its way to Japan and
        says The Shiny Happy Rock of Foo cures dandruff and brings harmony.
        Now, they don't have Shiny Happy Rocks of Foo in Japan because they
        only come from Foo which is practically in Tibet and nobody in Japan
        has ever seen one, but that doesn't mean that Japanese Buddhists
        aren't going to revere the properties of the Shiny Happy Rock of Foo
        if they ever happen to stub a toe on something that suddenly gives
        them a good hair day. And when the Emperor closes the country and
        stuff stops coming in from China, your chances of ever getting your
        hands on a Shiny Happy are pretty darn slim. Yes, I'm being facetious,
        but this explains why you can find tigers in the Japanese Zodiac when
        they are not an indigenous species to that part of Asia.

        > I just don't understand how they would have gold-leafed their
        > clothes but not have sewn in something shiney.
        They had other ways of doing shiny. BTW, that gold leaf technique is
        called surihaku, and it started as a way to fake a very hard-to-get
        Chinese brocade known as kinran that uses gold thread. And gold leaf
        does flake off (though it doesn't scratch up the floor or rip up the
        mats) but the whole falling-cherry-blossom-as-metaphor-for-the
        impermanence-of-existence makes it that much more beautiful and highly
        prized.)

        > But what about hats, hairpins or lanyards? How about pearls? They
        were
        > popular in China and India.

        http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/6.htm shows a Heian court lady
        dressed up for the most formal occasion and she has a gold comb in her
        hair with some danglies. That's about the only time I've seen one.
        Mostly, court or warrior-class women in period wore their hair very
        simply, long and straight, perhaps tied in a loose ponytail with - get
        this - plain white paper. (Simple, subtle, elegant, does not detract
        from the exquisite display of one's silks -or beautiful hair.) This
        lady is dressed for her wedding - no deely-bobs in sight:
        http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/12.htm

        I think the hats Solveig-hime mentioned might be for men. The court
        class wore a variety of hats, often denoting rank and/or formality of
        occasion. (Solveig-hime? Any more clues on this?)

        I also belong to a board called Immortal Geisha. I took the liberty of
        posting a request to see if anyone knew of bead embellishment on
        modern kimono or obi, and we got a rather interesting example, which
        is dated "Showa" (1926-1989). Here's the link:
        http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/viewtopic.php?t=3558&highlight=

        Here's a recent discussion on wearing jewelry with traditional kimono.
        I include it because you may find it interesting.
        http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/viewtopic.php?t=3102&highlight=jewelry

        Sorry not to have better news for you. Something may yet turn up, but
        my gut feeling is that it's rather unlikely.

        Saionji no Hanae,
        West Kingdom
      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... As I mentioned before, there were some ornamented hats inspired by Chinese models if you go back far enough. As for
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 8 2:20 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!
          > But what about hats, hairpins or lanyards? How about pearls? They
          > were
          > popular in China and India.
          As I mentioned before, there were some ornamented hats inspired by
          Chinese models if you go back far enough. As for hat pins, no you
          should not expect that. Hats were secured with cords. I do not know
          about gold leaf applied to clothing, but there was highly decorated
          brocade.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
          | the trash by my email filters. |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Well, for example, there is the coronation hat of the emperor depicted in one on the Monumenta Nipponica texts on
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 8 2:28 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig!

            > I think the hats Solveig-hime mentioned might be for men. The court
            > class wore a variety of hats, often denoting rank and/or formality of
            > occasion. (Solveig-hime? Any more clues on this?)

            Well, for example, there is the coronation hat of the emperor depicted
            in one on the Monumenta Nipponica texts on Japanese enthronement
            ritual. There is also a variety of other hats worn by court officials.
            If you go back far enough, you may find some of these officials being
            women. One woman served twice as emperor.

            > Here's a recent discussion on wearing jewelry with traditional kimono.
            > I include it because you may find it interesting.
            > http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/viewtopic.php?
            > t=3102&highlight=jewelry

            The tea ceremony and, if I recall correctly, the incense ceremony as
            well pretty much requires you to leave all jewelry at home.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
            | the trash by my email filters. |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! You can take a look at a picture of a benkan from page 250 of The Emergence of Japanese Kingship by Joan R. Piggott.
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 8 3:05 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig! You can take a look at a picture of a "benkan"
              from page 250 of The Emergence of Japanese Kingship by Joan R. Piggott.
              Stanford University Press, 1997.

              http://137.143.148.234/japan/benkan.pdf

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Solveig Throndardottir
              Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! You may have an easier time viewing: http://137.143.148.234/japan/benkan.jpg Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 8 4:12 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Noble Cousin!

                Greetings from Solveig! You may have an easier time viewing:

                http://137.143.148.234/japan/benkan.jpg

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                | the trash by my email filters. |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.