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mon question

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  • Heather
    i have a question that i havent been able to find an answer to and was wondering if anyone might be able to help. i was wondering in the scope of the sca
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 6, 2006
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      i have a question that i havent been able to find an answer to and was
      wondering if anyone might be able to help. i was wondering in the
      scope of the sca would it be wrong to use a particular mon that i have
      came to like but can not find any references to the time period in
      which i would like to portray. the mon in question is the one listed
      as used by the takeda here http://www.samurai-archives.com/crest6.html.

      the time period i would like to try to do is the kamakura period

      thanks for any and all information you can provide
    • sigrune@aol.com
      ... http://www.samurai-archives.com/crest6.html. ... Funny you should mention that. I tried unsuccessdully to register that particular mon as a badge (with a
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 6, 2006
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        In a message dated 4/6/2006 9:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Heather" <dragongirl_kat@...> writes:

        >...in the scope of the sca would it be wrong to use a
        >particular mon that I have came to like but can not find
        >any references to the time period in which I would like
        >to portray. the mon in question is the one listed as used
        >by the takeda here:

        http://www.samurai-archives.com/crest6.html.

        >the time period...is the kamakura

        Funny you should mention that.
        I tried unsuccessdully to register that particular mon as a badge (with a permission to conflict on file) so that it would be a registered item and thus protected.

        Not one mention of pretention was brought up, but apparently by laurel precedent it conflicts with the St. Andrews Cross of Scotland.

        The nice part is that I can fly the clan banners.

        I personally think it is a great mon, but maybe I am baiased.

        -Takeda
      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I have no particular objection to you using the Takeda design. You may have difficulty registering it with the heralds as
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 6, 2006
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig! I have no particular objection to you using the
          Takeda design. You may have difficulty registering it with the heralds
          as a badge because the four bishi are disconnected. If you pick
          tinctures for both the bishi and the background, then you may be able
          to register it as your arms. I should point out that I own the yellow
          bishi at the moment and use it as a repetitive all over pattern. Or at
          least that is how I intend to use it if I can ever manage make or get
          made the clothing I have in mind made. Incidentally, the crossed
          feather motif that I also have registered is drawn completely
          incorrectly in the records of the College of Arms. I also own two
          feathers in saltire which is another rather spiffy Japanese design
          element. I forget the tincture in this case. If you want to know about
          the possibility of historical usage of four bishi in the Kamakura
          period, then you can check out whether it is in Daibukan or not.
          Daibukan is arranged chronologically.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Elaine Koogler
          ... As a former Kingdom herald who went through seven versions of H-E-double toothpicks to register my front and back mons (can t remember the Japanese terms
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 7, 2006
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            sigrune@... wrote:
            > In a message dated 4/6/2006 9:35:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            > "Heather" <dragongirl_kat@...> writes:
            >
            > >...in the scope of the sca would it be wrong to use a
            > >particular mon that I have came to like but can not find
            > >any references to the time period in which I would like
            > >to portray. the mon in question is the one listed as used
            > >by the takeda here:
            >
            > http://www.samurai-archives.com/crest6.html.
            >
            > >the time period...is the kamakura
            >
            > Funny you should mention that.
            > I tried unsuccessdully to register that particular mon as a badge
            > (with a permission to conflict on file) so that it would be a
            > registered item and thus protected.
            >
            > Not one mention of pretention was brought up, but apparently by laurel
            > precedent it conflicts with the St. Andrews Cross of Scotland.
            >
            > The nice part is that I can fly the clan banners.
            >
            > I personally think it is a great mon, but maybe I am baiased.
            >
            > -Takeda
            >
            As a former Kingdom herald who went through seven versions of H-E-double
            toothpicks to register my front and back mons (can't remember the
            Japanese terms right now...or device and badge in European terms), I
            have to say that, of all historic Japanese mon, the Takeda mon is
            probably one of the more familiar, especially because of various
            Japanese movies. However, as we have also argued in the past, mon were
            not really the equivalent of European devices, but were used by members
            of the clan and were also frequently given by the clan head to someone
            who had provided a great service to the clan. So, if it were left to
            me, I might advise the submittor of its fame, but, if they really wanted
            it, pass it.

            Kiri
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