Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SCA-JML] Kimono Pattern

Expand Messages
  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... No, it s modern, I m afraid... Generally close enough for government work, but there are differences, primarily the sleeves. Effingham
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 24, 2000
      mercy67@... wrote:

      > Hello All!
      >
      > I know there is a difference between period and non-period kimonos. Is this
      > pattern period?
      >
      > http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/index.html?lsid=3ae23ba33d33826aa3ef72388
      >
      > f4fa9d1
      >
      > Please let me know so I can buy the pattern and start making myself some
      > clothing!

      No, it's modern, I'm afraid...

      Generally close enough for government work, but there are differences, primarily
      the sleeves.


      Effingham
    • Barbara Nostrand
      Noble Cousins! Silk, like other kinds of cloth, was woven on rather ordinary looking hand operated looms. We have pictures of the things. The basic textile
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 24, 2000
        Noble Cousins!

        Silk, like other kinds of cloth, was woven on rather ordinary looking
        hand operated looms. We have pictures of the things.

        The basic textile question revolves around fibre. The Japanese had
        hemp and linen as well as silk. I believe that they also had cotton,
        but you should understand that cotton used to be a luxury fibre.
        Brocade was imported from China along with writing, Buddhism and
        beurocratic government. As for the bushi, it depends upon which
        bushi and when. The bushi were not always well off. Even Minomoto
        no Yoritomo was not really all that wealthy when compared to the
        court. A textile historian can probably say where cotton originated.
        I'm not convinced that cotton would be particularly cost-effective
        in Japan as separating the fibres from the seeds was very labour
        intensive. Flax, hemp and jute are all derived from long fibre
        plant stems (as I recall) and were more cost effective than silk.

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar
        --
        +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
        +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
        | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
        | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
        | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
        | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
        | techie.com, msn.com |
        +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
      • Barbara Nostrand
        Noble Cousin! You also mentioned wool. Wool would be produced by cultures which herd animals which the Japanese generally did not do. The major domesticated
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 24, 2000
          Noble Cousin!

          You also mentioned wool. Wool would be produced by cultures which
          herd animals which the Japanese generally did not do. The major
          domesticated animals in Japan are: dog, cat, horse, and ox. None
          of these are particularly good at producing wool. There are
          wool producing cultures rather closer to Japan than Europe.
          These include certain minority groups in China. Wool would be
          known to the Japanese in period (Japanese travelled as far as
          India fairly early on), but wool would remain for the large part
          an not terribly interesting import item until the English showed
          up. At least that is my impression. Again, this is NOT one of my
          fields of expertise.

          Note. Frederic asserts that some garments were padded with swan
          down to provide warmth during the Winter. While down has
          been used in the West, this suggests a general absence of
          both wool and cotton. HOWEVER, Frederic also asserts that
          the commoners wore cotton (!) clothing. I'm not sure where
          he gets this from as he does not document it. There is a
          Chinese letter for cotton in Japanese, so the Japanese
          probably had it before the Europeans arrived. He also makes
          no mention of flax, hemp or jute which is just plain strange
          as this is a group of fibres definitely known in both China
          and Japan.

          According to Kidder (CHJv1) Jomon period Japanese wore clothing
          woven from the inner bark of the mulberry tree. This means that
          they were weaving a cloth similar to that woven by the indians
          of the Pacific Northwest.

          According to Chinese sources (CHJv1) Yayoi period Japanese wore
          clothing made out of: silk, linen, cotton, and hemp. (You really
          do not want to wear jute.) Archeological finds from this period
          show that Yayoi period cloth was 20 - 30 cm wide. Impressions
          from pot bottoms also suggest the use of wild ramie fibre. The
          Yoyoi period weavers wove S0-twisted warp weave with a warp of
          six to ten threads and a woof of eleven to twenty-four threads.
          (That should make any re-enactor happy.) (ref CHJv1 p. 99)

          As described in Princess Tishi's screens and curtains, the nobility
          of the Heian period wore: damasks, brocades, and bombycines
          woven of silk. During the eighth century, the Japanese had mastered
          tie-dyeing, stenciling and batik along with a wide variety of
          continental weaving techniques. Generally speaking, Heian period
          cloth was less varied in both technique and artistry than was
          Nara cloth. (ref. CHJv2 p. 394) During this period, production was
          on a larger scale and tended to be more monochromatic and less
          complex in weave.

          Note. I suspect that peasant cloth was woven from locally available
          fibre which may have included cotton as well as even continued use
          of tree bark. Eventually as both trade and industry increased, even
          the peasants would be purchasing cloth.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
          --
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
          | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
          | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
          | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
          | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
          | techie.com, msn.com |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
        • mercy67@aol.com
          In a message dated 00-10-24 18:50:46 EDT, you write:
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 24, 2000
            In a message dated 00-10-24 18:50:46 EDT, you write:

            <<
            I've heard of cotton and wool coming over with the Europeans, and I don't
            doubt that those who could afford it made some garments out of it,
            although I don't have any good sources for it. Does anyone else know?
            >>

            You know, I have a sashiko book that refers to the Japanese having cotton
            introduced to them in the 15th century. Before that there was fabrics made
            of grass, tree-bark fibers, ramie or silk. It was the 18th century when
            Sashiko was introduced (or so this book says). Who knows if this is correct
            (Sashiko and Beyond by Saikoh Takano...nice embroidery book).

            --Mercy
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.