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Fwd: Membership to be required to fight and recieve awards Forward from the Outlands Kingdom List

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  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! For what it s worth, here is a note for your consideration. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 1 5:03 PM
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      Noble Cousins!

      Greetings from Solveig! For what it's worth, here is a note for your
      consideration.

      Begin forwarded message:

      > From: chris hansen <chrish19572003@...>
      > Date: 2006 March 01 6:55:27 PM EST
      > Subject: Membership to be required to fight and recieve awards Forward
      > from the Outlands Kingdom List
      >
      > Greetings
      > Found this on the Outlands Kingdom List, it would appear that someone
      > at the BOD level is interested in making fundamental changes in the
      > structure of the Society for Creative Anachronism.
      > � With the abuses of the so called "New Mission Statment"
      > � With the Grand Council debate to eliminate all personas from
      > earlier than 600 AD and personas on non eouropean origin.
      > � With the new Grand Council Debate (see Below) What is being
      > debated by the SCA grand council is a insidious attempt to revive Pay
      > for Play. for those of you who don,t know the Grand Council is the
      > official advisory body to the BOD charged with debating and
      > formulating BOD policy.
      > �In Conculsion there is only one staement that applies:
      > �
      > NO PAY FOR PLAY!!!!!
      > �
      > Subject: Grand Council: Requiring Membership for Fighting/Awards
      >
      > Good greetings to all.
      >
      > The Grand Council is currently debating a question of
      > whether or not SCA membership should be required for
      > (a)participation in martial activities, and/or
      > (b)receiving awards, on a Society-wide level.�
      > �
      > �
      >
      > Yahoo! Mail
      > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Elaine Koogler
      ... Good Lady, I just finished perusing the Grand Council reports and minutes on the SCA Web site, and find no mention of forbidding non-European personnas.
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 1 7:03 PM
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        Solveig Throndardottir wrote:

        >Noble Cousins!
        >
        >Greetings from Solveig! For what it's worth, here is a note for your
        >consideration.
        >
        >Begin forwarded message:
        >
        >
        >
        >>From: chris hansen <chrish19572003@...>
        >>Date: 2006 March 01 6:55:27 PM EST
        >>Subject: Membership to be required to fight and recieve awards Forward
        >>from the Outlands Kingdom List
        >>
        >>Greetings
        >>Found this on the Outlands Kingdom List, it would appear that someone
        >>at the BOD level is interested in making fundamental changes in the
        >>structure of the Society for Creative Anachronism.
        >> • With the abuses of the so called "New Mission Statment"
        >> • With the Grand Council debate to eliminate all personas from
        >>earlier than 600 AD and personas on non eouropean origin.
        >> • With the new Grand Council Debate (see Below) What is being
        >>debated by the SCA grand council is a insidious attempt to revive Pay
        >>for Play. for those of you who don,t know the Grand Council is the
        >>official advisory body to the BOD charged with debating and
        >>formulating BOD policy.
        >> In Conculsion there is only one staement that applies:
        >>
        >>NO PAY FOR PLAY!!!!!
        >>
        >>Subject: Grand Council: Requiring Membership for Fighting/Awards
        >>
        >>Good greetings to all.
        >>
        >>The Grand Council is currently debating a question of
        >>whether or not SCA membership should be required for
        >>(a)participation in martial activities, and/or
        >>(b)receiving awards, on a Society-wide level.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>Yahoo! Mail
        >> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
        >>
        >>
        Good Lady,
        I just finished perusing the Grand Council reports and minutes on the
        SCA Web site, and find no mention of forbidding non-European personnas.
        There is a proposal to institute a "start" date. And I did see mention
        of a "pay for play" idea. However, in both cases, these are discussions
        by the Grand Council and nothing that is being discussed at this point
        by the BoD. (read the BoD minutes as well....). However, if folk are
        opposed to any of these ideas, they should communicate their feelings
        both to the Grand Council (access their Web site through the SCA site)
        and the BoD.

        Kiri
      • John Hidalgo
        In defense of the pay to play thing, if you are using an organization s resources (which includes that organization s insurance) then you really should give
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 1 7:55 PM
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          In defense of the "pay to play" thing, if you are using an organization's
          resources (which includes that organization's insurance) then you really
          should give back to that organization.

          Take care,
          John Hidalgo
          www.texasshinto.org
          www.roundrockbujinkan.com
          www.roundrockbujinkan.com/kyudo
          www.lonestarsumo.org
          "Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find
          your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles
          "Wherever I go, everyone is a little bit safer because I am there. Wherever
          I am, anyone in need has a friend. Whenever I return home, everyone is
          happy I am there." - Robert L. Humphrey



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Elaine Koogler" <ekoogler1@...>
          To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Fwd: Membership to be required to fight and recieve
          awards Forward from the Outlands Kingdom List


          > Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
          >
          > >Noble Cousins!
          > >
          > >Greetings from Solveig! For what it's worth, here is a note for your
          > >consideration.
          > >
          > >Begin forwarded message:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >>From: chris hansen <chrish19572003@...>
          > >>Date: 2006 March 01 6:55:27 PM EST
          > >>Subject: Membership to be required to fight and recieve awards Forward
          > >>from the Outlands Kingdom List
          > >>
          > >>Greetings
          > >>Found this on the Outlands Kingdom List, it would appear that someone
          > >>at the BOD level is interested in making fundamental changes in the
          > >>structure of the Society for Creative Anachronism.
          > >> • With the abuses of the so called "New Mission Statment"
          > >> • With the Grand Council debate to eliminate all personas from
          > >>earlier than 600 AD and personas on non eouropean origin.
          > >> • With the new Grand Council Debate (see Below) What is being
          > >>debated by the SCA grand council is a insidious attempt to revive Pay
          > >>for Play. for those of you who don,t know the Grand Council is the
          > >>official advisory body to the BOD charged with debating and
          > >>formulating BOD policy.
          > >> In Conculsion there is only one staement that applies:
          > >>
          > >>NO PAY FOR PLAY!!!!!
          > >>
          > >>Subject: Grand Council: Requiring Membership for Fighting/Awards
          > >>
          > >>Good greetings to all.
          > >>
          > >>The Grand Council is currently debating a question of
          > >>whether or not SCA membership should be required for
          > >>(a)participation in martial activities, and/or
          > >>(b)receiving awards, on a Society-wide level.
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>Yahoo! Mail
          > >> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
          > >>
          > >>
          > Good Lady,
          > I just finished perusing the Grand Council reports and minutes on the
          > SCA Web site, and find no mention of forbidding non-European personnas.
          > There is a proposal to institute a "start" date. And I did see mention
          > of a "pay for play" idea. However, in both cases, these are discussions
          > by the Grand Council and nothing that is being discussed at this point
          > by the BoD. (read the BoD minutes as well....). However, if folk are
          > opposed to any of these ideas, they should communicate their feelings
          > both to the Grand Council (access their Web site through the SCA site)
          > and the BoD.
          >
          > Kiri
          >
          >
          >
          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Bubba
          ... Non-members pay via the non-member surcharge. Since I only go to one event a year anymore I can t justify a membership, so I don t complain when I have to
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 2 2:06 AM
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            John Hidalgo wrote:
            > In defense of the "pay to play" thing, if you are using an
            > organization's resources (which includes that organization's
            > insurance) then you really should give back to that organization.

            Non-members pay via the non-member surcharge. Since I only go to one event a
            year anymore I can't justify a membership, so I don't complain when I have
            to fork over nearly $20 a head every September. When I started playing it
            was about $3 IIRC.
            --
            Kagemasa
            mysticz28@...
            He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in.
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! The pay for play was supported by people for a variety of reasons some of which are not well considered. Regardless, as
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 2 5:14 PM
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig! The "pay for play" was supported by people for
              a variety of reasons some of which are not well considered. Regardless,
              as a practical matter, there needs to be a mechanism to attract new
              people into the Society. This means that there should be a mechanism
              for newcomers to attend their first events without having to pay an
              extra $3.00. I agree that people who have been around for a while,
              really ought to be joining to help pay for the infrastructure. However,
              the infrastructure contributes a lot less to individual events than a
              lot of pay-to-play supporters think. It works out to about $0.50 a head
              not $3.00 a head. Perhaps the surcharge should stay in place, but the
              Chatelaine's office could issue one-year newcomer $0.50 discount cards.
              This would also negate the $3.00 surcharge as it is not applied to
              those receiving discounts. Again, these cards would only be for people
              who are genuinely new. That is, they have been around less than a year
              or six months if you think that a year is too long. You pick one. But,
              basically once people stop relying on Gold Key and and what naught,
              then maybe they should be thinking about buying a membership.

              Restricting awards to those who are up-to-date on their tribute to
              Milpitas would require considerable effort. Just think of how much
              effort is required to make sure that everyone in the crown lists is
              up-to-date. You would have to be continually doing extra book-keeping.
              I occasionally do scrolls. Milpitas does not pay for the supplies, I
              do. I do not see why I should go off and sock a bunch of money not to
              mention the time and effort into a scroll and then have it not given
              away at court, because somebody's renewal was lost in the mail. Or
              someone checked their status the day before their renewal arrived in
              Milpitas! GACK!

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Maddalena Alessandra
              You all rarely hear from me I just lurk usually. With regards to fighting, I have been told it is necessary to have membership because of insurance isssues. I
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 3 3:34 AM
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                You all rarely hear from me I just lurk usually.

                With regards to fighting, I have been told it is
                necessary to have membership because of insurance
                isssues. I can see where this is probably the case
                for at least some states and therefore must be
                enforced nationwide to cover the mudane legalities (of
                being able to fight at any event) and getting sites.

                With regards to awards and scrolls, the 'membership'
                issue is the reason most of Meridian scrolls are
                non-persona oriented and often copies from an original
                master though they are individually hand painted and
                supposedly temporary(most never request an original
                from a scribe). Scribes(Meridian and Gleann Abhann)
                are responsible for aquiring their own supplies.
                Gleann Abhann is currently in the growing throws of
                dealing with this issue. My understanding of Trimaris
                is that all their scrolls are original but rarely
                personalized and they hold competitions with prizes
                awarded to help defray the cost to the scribes.

                Solveig is very right that this leads to paperwork
                problems and frustrations. Someone for the peerage
                must check the troll sheets to see if the individuals
                are present and eligiable for a reward then scribes
                must be found to fill in the blank spaces on the
                scrolls(often less than 2 hours before court).

                There are many times when an award writing campaign
                fails because the individual has lapsed, often the
                paper work is tossed or filed only to be repeated
                later(often after years).

                Most local players either pay the surcharge realizing
                they aren't award eligiable or get a membership, many
                get the membership for the listing of events, prices,
                and directions.

                This is the system that has been used in Meridies for
                a long time and it can actually work (though often has
                problems). Our often solution to the surcharge for
                true newbies is the person who invited them picks up
                the added 3-5 dollars.

                Lady Maddalena Alessndra Godwin aka Madd Alex
                Just one view of things after 12+ years, from a
                scribe, fighter, artisan, herald, and newly made first
                time Kingdom officer.

                --- Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:

                > Noble Cousin!
                >
                > Greetings from Solveig! The "pay for play" was
                > supported by people for
                > a variety of reasons some of which are not well
                > considered. Regardless,
                > as a practical matter, there needs to be a mechanism
                > to attract new
                > people into the Society. This means that there
                > should be a mechanism
                > for newcomers to attend their first events without
                > having to pay an
                > extra $3.00. I agree that people who have been
                > around for a while,
                > really ought to be joining to help pay for the
                > infrastructure. However,
                > the infrastructure contributes a lot less to
                > individual events than a
                > lot of pay-to-play supporters think. It works out to
                > about $0.50 a head
                > not $3.00 a head. Perhaps the surcharge should stay
                > in place, but the
                > Chatelaine's office could issue one-year newcomer
                > $0.50 discount cards.
                > This would also negate the $3.00 surcharge as it is
                > not applied to
                > those receiving discounts. Again, these cards would
                > only be for people
                > who are genuinely new. That is, they have been
                > around less than a year
                > or six months if you think that a year is too long.
                > You pick one. But,
                > basically once people stop relying on Gold Key and
                > and what naught,
                > then maybe they should be thinking about buying a
                > membership.
                >
                > Restricting awards to those who are up-to-date on
                > their tribute to
                > Milpitas would require considerable effort. Just
                > think of how much
                > effort is required to make sure that everyone in the
                > crown lists is
                > up-to-date. You would have to be continually doing
                > extra book-keeping.
                > I occasionally do scrolls. Milpitas does not pay for
                > the supplies, I
                > do. I do not see why I should go off and sock a
                > bunch of money not to
                > mention the time and effort into a scroll and then
                > have it not given
                > away at court, because somebody's renewal was lost
                > in the mail. Or
                > someone checked their status the day before their
                > renewal arrived in
                > Milpitas! GACK!
                >
                > Your Humble Servant
                > Solveig Throndardottir
                > Amateur Scholar
                >
                >
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                > | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir,
                > CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                > | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est
                > |
                > | mailto:nostrand@... |
                > mailto:Solveig@... |
                >
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                > | Note. Many popular "free" email services are
                > automatically routed to |
                > | the trash by my email filters.
                > |
                >
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >


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              • Jim Barrows
                ... When I was a warranted marshal, you had to be a member to get authorized. Since in Atenveldt, at the time authorizations were lifetimes, many fighters let
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 4 12:32 AM
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                  On 3/3/06, Maddalena Alessandra <maddalex@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > You all rarely hear from me I just lurk usually.
                  >
                  > With regards to fighting, I have been told it is
                  > necessary to have membership because of insurance
                  > isssues. I can see where this is probably the case
                  > for at least some states and therefore must be
                  > enforced nationwide to cover the mudane legalities (of
                  > being able to fight at any event) and getting sites.


                  When I was a warranted marshal, you had to be a member to get authorized.
                  Since in Atenveldt, at the time authorizations were lifetimes, many fighters
                  let their membership lapse.

                  With regards to awards and scrolls, the 'membership'
                  > issue is the reason most of Meridian scrolls are
                  > non-persona oriented and often copies from an original


                  Atenveldt the scrolls are original, with the persons name filled in before
                  the event in which they are to be awarded. I suppose that sometimes they
                  are done at the event, but in general there is an attempt to ge them done
                  before hand.
                  How the process goes from recommendation to scroll, I'm not 100% sure, but
                  someone does check for membership elegibility etc.



                  --
                  James A Barrows


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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