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Re: [SCA-JML] Fwd: [Northshield] a question for discussion

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  • sigrune@aol.com
    ... I thought the battles/seige of Osaka was winter of 1614/15 and again in spring/summer of 1615. I m not saying that there wasn t a 1603 battle, just I do
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 23 10:56 AM
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      In a message dated 2/23/2006 10:51:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> writes:

      >...In Japan, 1603 also takes in the Battle of Osaka Castle
      >which is a sort of clean up operation after the Battle of
      >Sekigahara.

      I thought the battles/seige of Osaka was winter of 1614/15 and again in spring/summer of 1615. I'm not saying that there wasn't a 1603 battle, just I do not recall it.

      IIRC Ieyasu was named Shogun in 1603, the similarity of both James I and Ieyasu accending to their respective thrones is something each of them tried to instil in the other (or their advisors) and was one of the reasons for continued correspondance between the 2 leaders (or their courts, I have not read the transcripts of the actual documents of correspondance yet, I am still trying to obtain copies.)

      -Takeda
    • wodeford
      As a point of interest, there is no start date mentioned anywhere in the SCA s governing documents. Pre 17th century, however, is. Saionji no Hanae,
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 23 3:44 PM
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        As a point of interest, there is no "start" date mentioned anywhere in
        the SCA's governing documents. "Pre 17th century," however, is.

        Saionji no Hanae,
        Province of the Mists
        West Kingdom
      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Of course it is. Tune into the Rialto or the Grand Council discussions and you will see it alive and well. ... It is
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 23 5:07 PM
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!
          > Of course, I know other people who wanted it restricted to only
          > Western Europe, only Middle Agers and Renaissance and only monothiesm.
          >
          > Is that argument still going on?
          Of course it is. Tune into the Rialto or the Grand Council discussions
          and you will see it alive and well.
          > So is Hein ok but Edo not? And what if you want to play a Hairy Ainu?
          It is difficult, but not necessarily impossible, to play Hairy Ainu. At
          least at present.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Takeda dono! Greetings from Solveig! Darn! I remembered that something happened in 1603. I m sorry if I mentioned the wrong event. To complicate things, there
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 23 5:12 PM
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            Takeda dono!

            Greetings from Solveig! Darn! I remembered that something happened in
            1603. I'm sorry if I mentioned the wrong event. To complicate things,
            there were actually two battles of Osaka castle. And, no I'm feeling
            just too worn out at the moment to look up their dates. I was sick
            earlier this week and today was the first day I spent an extended
            period of time out and about.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
            | the trash by my email filters. |
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Yes, but you need to consider the source of the question. Someone is proposing an early period cut-off date. There
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 23 5:17 PM
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!

              > As a point of interest, there is no "start" date mentioned anywhere in
              > the SCA's governing documents. "Pre 17th century," however, is.

              Yes, but you need to consider the source of the question. Someone is
              proposing an early period cut-off date. There are actually good reasons
              to consider some sort of early period cut-off rule. However, I think
              that the documentary rule that I propose would in practice work a whole
              lot better than a fixed date. Both this question about temporal scope
              and the recent flap about the mission statement very likely reflect a
              concern by the BoD about some regions diverging significantly from
              pre-modernl recreation. And, not in the sense of geography.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Otagiri Tatsuzou
              A date of 1620 would include at least two Japanese visits to Europe ... Hasekura Tsunenaga, a Retainer of Date Masamune also known as Hasekura Rokuemon, led an
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 23 7:33 PM
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                A date of 1620 would include at least two Japanese visits to Europe ...


                Hasekura Tsunenaga, a Retainer of Date Masamune also known as Hasekura
                Rokuemon, led an embassy to Mexico and Europe (1613 - 20) and was the
                first Japanese envoy to visit the American continent. In July 1611 an
                embassy under Sebastion Viscaino brought back from New Spain (mexico)
                the Japanese merchants who had traveled there with Rodrigo Vivero Y
                Velasco the previous year. This inspired Date Masamune, the daimyo of
                Sendai (now Miyage prefecture), to send an embassy to seek trade with
                mexico and southern Europe. Date named Hasekura, a veteran of the
                invasions of Korea 1n 1592 and 1597, as his representative.

                In October 1613 Hasekura, at the head of 180 Japanese set out for
                Acapulco in a galleon built by Japanese shipwrights under Spanish
                supervision. He had audiences with the Mexican viceroy in 1614 and
                with the Spanish monarch Philip III and Pope Paul V in 1615. While in
                Spain he was baptized a Christian. In Febuary 1614, however, Tokugawa
                Ieyasu had issued a edict expelling Christian priests from Japan, and
                this resulted in a hardening of the Spanish attitude toward trade with
                Japan; thus Hasekura's mission failed. After two years in the
                Philipines Hasekura returned to Japan in September 1620.
                http://www.baobab.or.jp/~stranger/mypage/hasekura.htm
                http://tousando.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=research&action=display&thread=1115160586


                Otagiri Tatsuzou
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