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Conent of the list was: "Enough Already"

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  • sigrune@aol.com
    I wish to express my opinion on this for rational disussion, There have been some correspondance on this list which has to my eyes (and apparently others as
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 5, 2006
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      I wish to express my opinion on this for rational disussion,
      There have been some correspondance on this list which has to my eyes (and apparently others as well) has become quite heated. I do not see a problem with heated debate as long as it has some constructive value, if that value is simply seeing other opinions/ideas it is valid, as long as it does not generate to a outright insulting level.

      Concerning the issue of topics, this is a matter of discussion for the list, should SCA-JML remain a general board for the community of the "Japanese" in the SCA, or should it become a message board for pure information regarding period Japan? I for one prefer the former, but would reccomend the creation of a second board for "community topics" I myself happen to like the banter, most of you live too far from me to talk with regularly at events, I find I learn as much from the "off topics" as the other.

      For the following matter and its items:
      >> I really think that the time is now long
      >> since past to terminate the various discussions on:

      >> 1) Criminality at SCA events
      >> 2) The evils of modern Japan
      >> 3) The possible succession of Princess Aiko

      >> We... are supposed to be talking about pre-modern Japan
      >> and how to recreate it?

      I feel (my opinion) that the primary goal of this list should be about topics concerning the re-creation of pre-modern Japan, however I beleive this list was designed to serve as a way for "Japanese" members of the SCA community to communicate and "come together".

      As such I feel any topic which may be of interest to the "Japanese" SCA community, be it information or discussion on re-creating, picking names, kingdom functions, BoD policy, Japanese culture (ancient or modern), etc. are at least appropriate. If they are undesirable for further discussion beyind the initial post people simply will not reply, and it will go away.

      >[edited for bevity and clarity]message ignored or tucked
      >aside if it does not:

      >(1) proclaim certain members of this group as Supreme Authority
      >(2) slavishly pay homage to the Dream
      >(3) ra-ra-ra local kingdoms go!

      Item 1: can seem to be true at times, there are some highly knowledgeable prople on this list, and showing them respect for the knowledge they routinely share, is a good thing. It can seem intimidating or irritating at times, however if you talk with these same people you will generally find they are quite humble and interested in your opinions, ideas, and views, especially when you can discuss the matter with references to support your views.

      Item 2: "The dream" is different for all. For those on this list, the idea of "the dream" is closer since we do not always portray European personas from 1066-1525. If you don't have some incarnation of "the dream" how would one derive enjoyment from it? In short it is a good thing and worthy of praise. If you don't like those threads, don't read them. There are alot of threads on this list I either do not read or don't participate in.

      Item 3: The SCA is about kingdoms, you do not have to cheerlead for them, but some of this community find it fun, and friendly competition is part of the foundation of the SCA. After all it is about US (our buddies) beating up THEM (those guys in the other color tape) and then ALL of us going out for drinks and laughing about it.

      >Don't bother responding. Once again, I have learned my >lesson...

      Comments like the above do not promote communication, and thus are not appropriate to the list.

      I think Dennis Miller stated it well with his comment: "Think a bit about the feelings of other people, and grow a thicker skin yourself." It goes a long way.

      These are my views...
      -Takeda
    • Ii Saburou Katsumori (Joshua B.)
      ... I would second Takeda-dono s questions. There has been talk here that we have become less of a community. There have also been comments that we have
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 5, 2006
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        On 2/5/06, sigrune@... <sigrune@...> wrote:
        >
        > I wish to express my opinion on this for rational disussion,
        > There have been some correspondance on this list which has to my eyes (and
        > apparently others as well) has become quite heated. I do not see a problem
        > with heated debate as long as it has some constructive value, if that value
        > is simply seeing other opinions/ideas it is valid, as long as it does not
        > generate to a outright insulting level.
        >
        > Concerning the issue of topics, this is a matter of discussion for the
        > list, should SCA-JML remain a general board for the community of the
        > "Japanese" in the SCA, or should it become a message board for pure
        > information regarding period Japan? I for one prefer the former, but would
        > reccomend the creation of a second board for "community topics" I myself
        > happen to like the banter, most of you live too far from me to talk with
        > regularly at events, I find I learn as much from the "off topics" as the
        > other.


        I would second Takeda-dono's questions. There has been talk here that we
        have become less of a community. There have also been comments that we have
        become overly heated and devisive.

        We could contain this list to solely On-Topic discussions. That is, those
        topics specifically concerning the recreation of Japanese personas within
        the SCA. However, I have found the previous posts to be rather enjoyable as
        well--when people aren't taking things personally or being condescending
        towards disenting viewpoints.

        At this point, I see no reason not to allow discussion on modern Japan to
        continue, unless it turns into an all out flame war. I would only ask that
        people think about whether or not this is On-Topic or not. A small 'OT' can
        easily denote that something is an Off-Topic discussion, and others can
        choose to ignore it.

        Please do not use this space for personal attacks against other people. If
        you disagree with their views, fine. If you disagree with how they present
        them, fine. However, please refrain from ad hominem attacks against a
        person. If you are really having problems, feel free to e-mail me privately
        with your frustrations.

        Finally, regarding sources--I think that many people here understand what
        sources are, and how to quote them. On the other hand, those sources are
        not always at our beck and call in the middle of a discussion. So, please
        let's keep this in mind, and if you believe someone is using questionable
        sources, question the sources. Heck, even if it is sourced, it might not be
        any good.

        -Ii


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Elaine Koogler
        ... I agree...to be honest, if there s a message I am not interested in, that good old DELETE key comes in very handy! Kiri
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 5, 2006
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          sigrune@... wrote:

          > I wish to express my opinion on this for rational disussion,
          > There have been some correspondance on this list which has to my eyes
          > (and apparently others as well) has become quite heated. I do not see
          > a problem with heated debate as long as it has some constructive
          > value, if that value is simply seeing other opinions/ideas it is
          > valid, as long as it does not generate to a outright insulting level.
          >
          > Concerning the issue of topics, this is a matter of discussion for the
          > list, should SCA-JML remain a general board for the community of the
          > "Japanese" in the SCA, or should it become a message board for pure
          > information regarding period Japan? I for one prefer the former, but
          > would reccomend the creation of a second board for "community topics"
          > I myself happen to like the banter, most of you live too far from me
          > to talk with regularly at events, I find I learn as much from the "off
          > topics" as the other.
          >
          > For the following matter and its items:
          > >> I really think that the time is now long
          > >> since past to terminate the various discussions on:
          >
          > >> 1) Criminality at SCA events
          > >> 2) The evils of modern Japan
          > >> 3) The possible succession of Princess Aiko
          >
          > >> We... are supposed to be talking about pre-modern Japan
          > >> and how to recreate it?
          >
          > I feel (my opinion) that the primary goal of this list should be about
          > topics concerning the re-creation of pre-modern Japan, however I
          > beleive this list was designed to serve as a way for "Japanese"
          > members of the SCA community to communicate and "come together".
          >
          > As such I feel any topic which may be of interest to the "Japanese"
          > SCA community, be it information or discussion on re-creating, picking
          > names, kingdom functions, BoD policy, Japanese culture (ancient or
          > modern), etc. are at least appropriate. If they are undesirable for
          > further discussion beyind the initial post people simply will not
          > reply, and it will go away.
          >
          > >[edited for bevity and clarity]message ignored or tucked
          > >aside if it does not:
          >
          > >(1) proclaim certain members of this group as Supreme Authority
          > >(2) slavishly pay homage to the Dream
          > >(3) ra-ra-ra local kingdoms go!
          >
          > Item 1: can seem to be true at times, there are some highly
          > knowledgeable prople on this list, and showing them respect for the
          > knowledge they routinely share, is a good thing. It can seem
          > intimidating or irritating at times, however if you talk with these
          > same people you will generally find they are quite humble and
          > interested in your opinions, ideas, and views, especially when you can
          > discuss the matter with references to support your views.
          >
          > Item 2: "The dream" is different for all. For those on this list, the
          > idea of "the dream" is closer since we do not always portray European
          > personas from 1066-1525. If you don't have some incarnation of "the
          > dream" how would one derive enjoyment from it? In short it is a good
          > thing and worthy of praise. If you don't like those threads, don't
          > read them. There are alot of threads on this list I either do not
          > read or don't participate in.
          >
          > Item 3: The SCA is about kingdoms, you do not have to cheerlead for
          > them, but some of this community find it fun, and friendly competition
          > is part of the foundation of the SCA. After all it is about US (our
          > buddies) beating up THEM (those guys in the other color tape) and then
          > ALL of us going out for drinks and laughing about it.
          >
          > >Don't bother responding. Once again, I have learned my >lesson...
          >
          > Comments like the above do not promote communication, and thus are not
          > appropriate to the list.
          >
          > I think Dennis Miller stated it well with his comment: "Think a bit
          > about the feelings of other people, and grow a thicker skin yourself."
          > It goes a long way.
          >
          > These are my views...
          > -Takeda
          >
          >
          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          I agree...to be honest, if there's a message I am not interested in,
          that good old "DELETE" key comes in very handy!

          Kiri
        • Jennifer Kobayashi
          ... I have no problem with opinions or vehement disagreements as long as they are politely expressed. Note that agreeing to disagree is an option. ... I would
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            --- "Ii Saburou Katsumori (Joshua B.)"
            > There has
            > been talk here that we
            > have become less of a community. There have also
            > been comments that we have
            > become overly heated and devisive.

            I have no problem with opinions or vehement
            disagreements as long as they are politely expressed.
            Note that agreeing to disagree is an option.

            > We could contain this list to solely On-Topic
            > discussions. That is, those
            > topics specifically concerning the recreation of
            > Japanese personas within
            > the SCA. However, I have found the previous posts
            > to be rather enjoyable as
            > well--when people aren't taking things personally or
            > being condescending
            > towards disenting viewpoints.

            I would prefer to see the list remain as is at this
            time; however, more attention to accurate subjects
            would be helpful and off topic notification would be
            useful.
            >
            >
            > Please do not use this space for personal attacks
            > against other people.

            Thank you. And thank you Ii-dono for owning and
            maintaining this helpful list. Respectfully,

            Ki no Izumi aka Jennifer Kobayashi

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