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  • wodeford
    ... I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese. Saionji no Hanae, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
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      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
      wrote:

      > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
      > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

      I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

      Saionji no Hanae,
      Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
    • JESSICA DODGE
      Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven t run across anything with
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
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        Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven't run across anything with words in perios exept for "Sakura" And that is only becuase a friend of mine recommened it.

        I did track down a something. When I have time to do more research on it, It is my hope that it will open up a needed area in Bardic Activites in Calontir.
        Hotaru

        wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
        wrote:

        > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
        > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

        I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

        Saionji no Hanae,
        Province of the Mists, West Kingdom






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      • Anthony Bryant
        I think part of the problem I have is that the original song referenced is not only VERY non-period, it s not even Japanese. There is a certain period-ish
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
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          I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
          referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

          There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
          look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
          tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
          by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
          traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
          "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

          Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
          don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
          student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
          River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
          setting? I doubt it.

          One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
          kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
          song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
          when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
          *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

          That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

          The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
          like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
          Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
          and historical flavor.

          What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
          folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
          much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
          interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
          repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
          hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
          bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
          as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
          a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
          the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
          or Japanese.

          *******

          First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
          of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
          I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
          songs into English, and then recording them.

          I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
          but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
          might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
          -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
          -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
          modern.

          If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
          know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
          barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

          Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

          Songs worth noting:

          Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
          on the Gojo Bridge)
          http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

          Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

          Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

          Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
          song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
          THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
          BTW, it's a drinking song)
          http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

          Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
          http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

          Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
          participation!)
          http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

          Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
          with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
          clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
          the song, like a metronome beat.)
          http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

          *******

          Now for another site.

          This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
          Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
          traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
          of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
          to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
          listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
          encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
          the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
          "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
          J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
          has its own page.

          The link is:
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

          On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
          so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

          Faves and songs of note:

          Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
          fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
          "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

          Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

          Yosaku
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

          Chakkiri bushi
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

          Ushiwaka maru
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

          Fuji no yama
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

          Bear in the Woods
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
          Yesterday
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
          (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

          Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
          theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
          http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

          ********

          Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
          Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
          http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

          One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
          music, no words):
          http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

          Soran bushi
          http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

          Kuroda bushi
          http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

          *******

          I hope this is of some help.


          Effingham
          --

          Anthony J. Bryant
          Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

          Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
          http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

          All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
          http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
        • JESSICA DODGE
          THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding. Hotaru
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
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            THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding.
            Hotaru

            Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
            I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
            referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

            There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
            look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
            tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
            by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
            traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
            "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

            Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
            don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
            student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
            River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
            setting? I doubt it.

            One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
            kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
            song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
            when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
            *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

            That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

            The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
            like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
            Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
            and historical flavor.

            What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
            folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
            much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
            interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
            repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
            hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
            bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
            as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
            a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
            the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
            or Japanese.

            *******

            First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
            of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
            I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
            songs into English, and then recording them.

            I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
            but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
            might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
            -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
            -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
            modern.

            If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
            know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
            barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

            Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

            Songs worth noting:

            Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
            on the Gojo Bridge)
            http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

            Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

            Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

            Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
            song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
            THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
            BTW, it's a drinking song)
            http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

            Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
            http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

            Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
            participation!)
            http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

            Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
            with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
            clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
            the song, like a metronome beat.)
            http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

            *******

            Now for another site.

            This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
            Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
            traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
            of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
            to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
            listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
            encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
            the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
            "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
            J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
            has its own page.

            The link is:
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

            On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
            so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

            Faves and songs of note:

            Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
            fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
            "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

            Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

            Yosaku
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

            Chakkiri bushi
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

            Ushiwaka maru
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

            Fuji no yama
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

            Bear in the Woods
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
            Yesterday
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
            (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

            Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
            theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

            ********

            Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
            Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

            One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
            music, no words):
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

            Soran bushi
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

            Kuroda bushi
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

            *******

            I hope this is of some help.


            Effingham
            --

            Anthony J. Bryant
            Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

            Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
            http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

            All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
            http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo




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          • Anthony Bryant
            ... Glad to help. Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
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              JESSICA DODGE wrote:

              > THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I
              > will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period
              > sounding.

              Glad to help. <G>

              Effingham
              --

              Anthony J. Bryant
              Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

              Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
              http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

              All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
              http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
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