Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

English or Japanese

Expand Messages
  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing in English or in Japanese? Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing in English or in Japanese?

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
      | the trash by my email filters. |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • wodeford
      ... I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese. Saionji no Hanae, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
        wrote:

        > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
        > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

        I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

        Saionji no Hanae,
        Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
      • JESSICA DODGE
        Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven t run across anything with
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
          Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven't run across anything with words in perios exept for "Sakura" And that is only becuase a friend of mine recommened it.

          I did track down a something. When I have time to do more research on it, It is my hope that it will open up a needed area in Bardic Activites in Calontir.
          Hotaru

          wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
          wrote:

          > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
          > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

          I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

          Saionji no Hanae,
          Province of the Mists, West Kingdom






          UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          ---------------------------------
          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


          Visit your group "sca-jml" on the web.

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          ---------------------------------






          ---------------------------------
          Yahoo! Photos
          Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Anthony Bryant
          I think part of the problem I have is that the original song referenced is not only VERY non-period, it s not even Japanese. There is a certain period-ish
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
            I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
            referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

            There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
            look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
            tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
            by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
            traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
            "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

            Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
            don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
            student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
            River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
            setting? I doubt it.

            One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
            kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
            song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
            when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
            *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

            That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

            The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
            like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
            Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
            and historical flavor.

            What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
            folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
            much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
            interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
            repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
            hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
            bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
            as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
            a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
            the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
            or Japanese.

            *******

            First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
            of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
            I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
            songs into English, and then recording them.

            I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
            but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
            might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
            -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
            -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
            modern.

            If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
            know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
            barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

            Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

            Songs worth noting:

            Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
            on the Gojo Bridge)
            http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

            Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

            Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

            Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
            song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
            THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
            BTW, it's a drinking song)
            http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

            Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
            http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

            Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
            participation!)
            http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

            Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
            with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
            clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
            the song, like a metronome beat.)
            http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

            *******

            Now for another site.

            This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
            Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
            traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
            of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
            to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
            listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
            encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
            the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
            "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
            J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
            has its own page.

            The link is:
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

            On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
            so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

            Faves and songs of note:

            Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
            fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
            "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

            Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

            Yosaku
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

            Chakkiri bushi
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

            Ushiwaka maru
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

            Fuji no yama
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

            Bear in the Woods
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
            Yesterday
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
            (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

            Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
            theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
            http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

            ********

            Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
            Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

            One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
            music, no words):
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

            Soran bushi
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

            Kuroda bushi
            http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

            *******

            I hope this is of some help.


            Effingham
            --

            Anthony J. Bryant
            Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

            Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
            http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

            All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
            http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
          • JESSICA DODGE
            THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding. Hotaru
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
              THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding.
              Hotaru

              Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
              I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
              referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

              There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
              look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
              tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
              by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
              traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
              "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

              Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
              don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
              student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
              River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
              setting? I doubt it.

              One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
              kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
              song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
              when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
              *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

              That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

              The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
              like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
              Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
              and historical flavor.

              What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
              folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
              much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
              interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
              repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
              hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
              bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
              as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
              a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
              the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
              or Japanese.

              *******

              First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
              of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
              I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
              songs into English, and then recording them.

              I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
              but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
              might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
              -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
              -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
              modern.

              If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
              know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
              barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

              Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

              Songs worth noting:

              Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
              on the Gojo Bridge)
              http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

              Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

              Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

              Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
              song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
              THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
              BTW, it's a drinking song)
              http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

              Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
              http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

              Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
              participation!)
              http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

              Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
              with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
              clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
              the song, like a metronome beat.)
              http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

              *******

              Now for another site.

              This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
              Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
              traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
              of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
              to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
              listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
              encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
              the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
              "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
              J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
              has its own page.

              The link is:
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

              On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
              so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

              Faves and songs of note:

              Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
              fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
              "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

              Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

              Yosaku
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

              Chakkiri bushi
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

              Ushiwaka maru
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

              Fuji no yama
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

              Bear in the Woods
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
              Yesterday
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
              (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

              Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
              theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

              ********

              Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
              Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

              One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
              music, no words):
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

              Soran bushi
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

              Kuroda bushi
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

              *******

              I hope this is of some help.


              Effingham
              --

              Anthony J. Bryant
              Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

              Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
              http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

              All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
              http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo




              UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              ---------------------------------
              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


              Visit your group "sca-jml" on the web.

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              ---------------------------------






              ---------------------------------
              Yahoo! Photos
              Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Anthony Bryant
              ... Glad to help. Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
                JESSICA DODGE wrote:

                > THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I
                > will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period
                > sounding.

                Glad to help. <G>

                Effingham
                --

                Anthony J. Bryant
                Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
                http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.