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  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs, Japanese songs, or just songs in general? I have books of Japanese
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
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      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
      Japanese songs, or just songs in general? I have books of Japanese
      children's songs, there are books of ko'uta around, &c. Would you
      possibly be interested in reciting stories while playing the biwa? (The
      biwa is a kind of lute.)

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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      | the trash by my email filters. |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Solveig Throndardottir
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing in English or in Japanese? Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing in English or in Japanese?

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
        | the trash by my email filters. |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wodeford
        ... I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese. Saionji no Hanae, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
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          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
          wrote:

          > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
          > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

          I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

          Saionji no Hanae,
          Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        • JESSICA DODGE
          Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven t run across anything with
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
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            Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven't run across anything with words in perios exept for "Sakura" And that is only becuase a friend of mine recommened it.

            I did track down a something. When I have time to do more research on it, It is my hope that it will open up a needed area in Bardic Activites in Calontir.
            Hotaru

            wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
            wrote:

            > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
            > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

            I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

            Saionji no Hanae,
            Province of the Mists, West Kingdom






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          • Anthony Bryant
            I think part of the problem I have is that the original song referenced is not only VERY non-period, it s not even Japanese. There is a certain period-ish
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
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              I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
              referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

              There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
              look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
              tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
              by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
              traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
              "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

              Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
              don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
              student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
              River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
              setting? I doubt it.

              One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
              kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
              song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
              when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
              *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

              That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

              The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
              like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
              Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
              and historical flavor.

              What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
              folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
              much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
              interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
              repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
              hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
              bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
              as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
              a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
              the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
              or Japanese.

              *******

              First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
              of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
              I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
              songs into English, and then recording them.

              I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
              but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
              might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
              -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
              -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
              modern.

              If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
              know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
              barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

              Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

              Songs worth noting:

              Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
              on the Gojo Bridge)
              http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

              Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

              Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

              Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
              song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
              THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
              BTW, it's a drinking song)
              http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

              Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
              http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

              Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
              participation!)
              http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

              Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
              with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
              clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
              the song, like a metronome beat.)
              http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

              *******

              Now for another site.

              This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
              Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
              traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
              of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
              to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
              listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
              encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
              the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
              "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
              J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
              has its own page.

              The link is:
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

              On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
              so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

              Faves and songs of note:

              Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
              fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
              "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

              Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

              Yosaku
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

              Chakkiri bushi
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

              Ushiwaka maru
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

              Fuji no yama
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

              Bear in the Woods
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
              Yesterday
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
              (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

              Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
              theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
              http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

              ********

              Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
              Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

              One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
              music, no words):
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

              Soran bushi
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

              Kuroda bushi
              http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

              *******

              I hope this is of some help.


              Effingham
              --

              Anthony J. Bryant
              Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

              Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
              http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

              All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
              http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
            • JESSICA DODGE
              THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding. Hotaru
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
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                THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding.
                Hotaru

                Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
                I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
                referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

                There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
                look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
                tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
                by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
                traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
                "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

                Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
                don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
                student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
                River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
                setting? I doubt it.

                One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
                kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
                song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
                when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
                *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

                That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

                The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
                like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
                Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
                and historical flavor.

                What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
                folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
                much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
                interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
                repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
                hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
                bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
                as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
                a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
                the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
                or Japanese.

                *******

                First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
                of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
                I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
                songs into English, and then recording them.

                I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
                but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
                might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
                -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
                -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
                modern.

                If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
                know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
                barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

                Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

                Songs worth noting:

                Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
                on the Gojo Bridge)
                http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

                Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

                Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

                Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
                song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
                THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
                BTW, it's a drinking song)
                http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

                Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
                http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

                Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
                participation!)
                http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

                Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
                with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
                clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
                the song, like a metronome beat.)
                http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

                *******

                Now for another site.

                This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
                Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
                traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
                of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
                to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
                listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
                encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
                the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
                "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
                J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
                has its own page.

                The link is:
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

                On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
                so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

                Faves and songs of note:

                Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
                fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
                "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

                Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

                Yosaku
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

                Chakkiri bushi
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

                Ushiwaka maru
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

                Fuji no yama
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

                Bear in the Woods
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
                Yesterday
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
                (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

                Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
                theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
                http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

                ********

                Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
                Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
                http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

                One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
                music, no words):
                http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

                Soran bushi
                http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

                Kuroda bushi
                http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

                *******

                I hope this is of some help.


                Effingham
                --

                Anthony J. Bryant
                Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
                http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo




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              • Anthony Bryant
                ... Glad to help. Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
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                  JESSICA DODGE wrote:

                  > THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I
                  > will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period
                  > sounding.

                  Glad to help. <G>

                  Effingham
                  --

                  Anthony J. Bryant
                  Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                  Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                  http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                  All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
                  http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
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