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  • wodeford
    ... wrong way. ... Which begs the question, can anyone recommend some songs that are? Recordings? Lyrics in romanji (sorry - can t manage real Japanese)? Midi
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, JESSICA DODGE <kaythiarain@y...> wrote:

      > Thank you, for the info. Please, please please, do not take this the
      wrong way.
      > You said "Not only non-Japanese, but INCREDIBLY post-Period"

      Which begs the question, can anyone recommend some songs that are?
      Recordings? Lyrics in romanji (sorry - can't manage real Japanese)?
      Midi files, even? I would be interested, it's just something I haven't
      gotten around to looking for myself and a shove in the right direction
      would be most welcome.

      > I really don't care.
      Which begs the question - no, I am NOT going to go there.

      Hotaru-hime, if you want Western material that is at least period for
      the SCA, drop me a note offline and I can direct you to a big,
      heaping, steaming pile of useful information, much of it readily
      available on-lline. (My European alter ego is a period music geek - in
      fact, she will be teaching some easy songs at Estrella.)

      Saionji no Hanae
    • JESSICA DODGE
      Woeford-dono If that is the case, I will see you at estrella and will be most happy to take your class! (as i enjoyed the costuming class at known world, I
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
        Woeford-dono
        If that is the case, I will see you at estrella and will be most happy to take your class! (as i enjoyed the costuming class at known world, I would expect to enjoy your music class) I am trying to memorize some "entertianment" I most recntly memorized "The Yarn of the Nancy Bell" I won a bardic competion with it. I play recorder, drums and anythig I can get my musically incined hands on.

        i hope to see you there!
        Hotaru
        (or Helena panier)
        I will push you in a direction at the war!

        .

        wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, JESSICA DODGE <kaythiarain@y...> wrote:

        > Thank you, for the info. Please, please please, do not take this the
        wrong way.
        > You said "Not only non-Japanese, but INCREDIBLY post-Period"

        Which begs the question, can anyone recommend some songs that are?
        Recordings? Lyrics in romanji (sorry - can't manage real Japanese)?
        Midi files, even? I would be interested, it's just something I haven't
        gotten around to looking for myself and a shove in the right direction
        would be most welcome.

        > I really don't care.
        Which begs the question - no, I am NOT going to go there.

        Hotaru-hime, if you want Western material that is at least period for
        the SCA, drop me a note offline and I can direct you to a big,
        heaping, steaming pile of useful information, much of it readily
        available on-lline. (My European alter ego is a period music geek - in
        fact, she will be teaching some easy songs at Estrella.)

        Saionji no Hanae








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      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs, Japanese songs, or just songs in general? I have books of Japanese
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
          Japanese songs, or just songs in general? I have books of Japanese
          children's songs, there are books of ko'uta around, &c. Would you
          possibly be interested in reciting stories while playing the biwa? (The
          biwa is a kind of lute.)

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
          | the trash by my email filters. |
          +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Solveig Throndardottir
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing in English or in Japanese? Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig! Do you want to sing in English or in Japanese?

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
            | the trash by my email filters. |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • wodeford
            ... I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese. Saionji no Hanae, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 10, 2006
              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
              wrote:

              > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
              > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

              I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

              Saionji no Hanae,
              Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
            • JESSICA DODGE
              Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven t run across anything with
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 11, 2006
                Well, I would like to sing period stuff. However,right now, I will sing anything I can find. As far as music is concerned, I haven't run across anything with words in perios exept for "Sakura" And that is only becuase a friend of mine recommened it.

                I did track down a something. When I have time to do more research on it, It is my hope that it will open up a needed area in Bardic Activites in Calontir.
                Hotaru

                wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@a...>
                wrote:

                > Do you want to sing premodern Japanese songs,
                > Japanese songs, or just songs in general?

                I, for one, would be interested in pre-1600 songs in Japanese.

                Saionji no Hanae,
                Province of the Mists, West Kingdom






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              • Anthony Bryant
                I think part of the problem I have is that the original song referenced is not only VERY non-period, it s not even Japanese. There is a certain period-ish
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
                  I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
                  referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

                  There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
                  look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
                  tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
                  by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
                  traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
                  "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

                  Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
                  don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
                  student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
                  River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
                  setting? I doubt it.

                  One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
                  kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
                  song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
                  when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
                  *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

                  That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

                  The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
                  like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
                  Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
                  and historical flavor.

                  What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
                  folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
                  much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
                  interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
                  repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
                  hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
                  bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
                  as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
                  a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
                  the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
                  or Japanese.

                  *******

                  First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
                  of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
                  I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
                  songs into English, and then recording them.

                  I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
                  but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
                  might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
                  -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
                  -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
                  modern.

                  If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
                  know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
                  barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

                  Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

                  Songs worth noting:

                  Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
                  on the Gojo Bridge)
                  http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

                  Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

                  Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

                  Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
                  song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
                  THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
                  BTW, it's a drinking song)
                  http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

                  Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
                  http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

                  Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
                  participation!)
                  http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

                  Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
                  with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
                  clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
                  the song, like a metronome beat.)
                  http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

                  *******

                  Now for another site.

                  This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
                  Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
                  traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
                  of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
                  to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
                  listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
                  encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
                  the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
                  "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
                  J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
                  has its own page.

                  The link is:
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

                  On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
                  so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

                  Faves and songs of note:

                  Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
                  fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
                  "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

                  Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

                  Yosaku
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

                  Chakkiri bushi
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

                  Ushiwaka maru
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

                  Fuji no yama
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

                  Bear in the Woods
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
                  Yesterday
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
                  (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

                  Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
                  theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
                  http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

                  ********

                  Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
                  Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
                  http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

                  One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
                  music, no words):
                  http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

                  Soran bushi
                  http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

                  Kuroda bushi
                  http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

                  *******

                  I hope this is of some help.


                  Effingham
                  --

                  Anthony J. Bryant
                  Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                  Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                  http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                  All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
                  http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
                • JESSICA DODGE
                  THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding. Hotaru
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
                    THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period sounding.
                    Hotaru

                    Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
                    I think part of the problem I have is that the original song
                    referenced is not only VERY non-period, it's not even Japanese.

                    There is a certain "period-ish song" tolerance in the SCA --
                    look at all those Steeleye Span songs, Clancy Brothers
                    tunes, and so on. Not to mention all the NEW songs written
                    by musicians in the SCA, and the filk... One wonders about
                    traditional folksongs -- many of which, like typical
                    "Brothers Grimm" tales, are only a few centuries old.

                    Certainly singing a song in a foreign language that most
                    don't understand could render even a ballad about the 1968
                    student riots incomprehensible, so... Would one sing "Red
                    River Valley," "Santa Luccia," or "Katyusha" in a pre-1600
                    setting? I doubt it.

                    One of the big problems with Japanese songs -- especially
                    kids' songs and folk songs -- is that the more recent the
                    song, the more "westernized" the tune is going to be. Even
                    when it sounds really Japanese -- like enka, which is
                    *extremely* Japanese in flavor -- it tends to sound more modern.

                    That being said, I'm going to help you cheat. <G>

                    The easy way, barring finding real, guaranteed period things
                    like kouta and Noh pieces and so on, is to try traditional
                    Japanese folksongs that preserve or suggest a traiditonal
                    and historical flavor.

                    What you really want to look for are minyo (or min'you) --
                    folksongs. They tend to be fairly short (yay!) but, like
                    much traditional Japanese vocal music, require some
                    interesting vocal gymnastics. They also tend to have
                    repeated short nonsense words/verses (cf. English "With a
                    hey lolly lilly lally loodee loodee dee") -- these repeated
                    bits can sometimes be popularly joined in on by the audience
                    as a sort of participatory element. Clapping to the beat of
                    a fastish song (like an old fave, Soran Bushi), helps get
                    the audience into the song -- whether the lyrics are English
                    or Japanese.

                    *******

                    First, let me introduce you to the site of an acquaintence
                    of mine from Sci.lang.japan. Ito-san has a weird hobby (like
                    I'm one to talk!) -- he likes translating old, traditional
                    songs into English, and then recording them.

                    I think some of the translations are a bit clunky in places,
                    but he was trying to preserve the syllable count. You also
                    might enjoy some of the enka (often called "Japanese blues"
                    -- I *love* enka) -- I particularly like Yosaku, which could
                    -- thematically -- pass as a period piece, although it is
                    modern.

                    If you decide you want to sing any of them in Japan, let me
                    know what you like and I'll try to find romanized lyrics --
                    barring that, I'll try to get some done for you.

                    Ito-san's site: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/

                    Songs worth noting:

                    Ushiwaka-maru (telling of Yoshitsune's encounter with Benkei
                    on the Gojo Bridge)
                    http://members10.tsukaeru.net/bito/Ushiwakamaru.htm

                    Fuji no yama http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/FujinoYama.htm

                    Yosaku http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/YosakuFluteJas.htm

                    Kuroda Bushi (a classic minyo; "bushi" is a type of folk
                    song -- it has nothing to do with "warrior" -- although in
                    THIS song the word is VERY clearly a pun. I love this song.
                    BTW, it's a drinking song)
                    http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/KurodaBushi.htm

                    Tabaru-zaka (Tabaru slopes)
                    http://bungito.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tabaruzaka.htm

                    Chakkiri bushi (lots of repeated "chakkiri" to get audience
                    participation!)
                    http://bungito-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Chakkiribushi.htm

                    Soran bushi (a classic, popular for audience participation
                    with repeated "soran, soran, soran, soran, hai hai!" with a
                    clap on each "so"! -- in fact, keep the clapping up through
                    the song, like a metronome beat.)
                    http://bito2.tsukaeru.jp/So-ranbushiyoshida.htm

                    *******

                    Now for another site.

                    This one is a wonderful resource -- if you can read
                    Japanese. What it is is a huge online warehouse of
                    traditional Japanese songs with lyrics and midi or mp3 files
                    of the tunes (so you can sing along). Of course to be able
                    to use it, you need to be able to read Japanese; but I'm
                    listing it here as it's a great resource. It's an
                    encyclopedic list of old, trad, lullaby, kids' (including
                    the "traditional Japanese" "bear in the woods"), and
                    "nostalgic" (many WWII -- including my old fave, "Subaru")
                    J. songs. The words on the page with the midi, and each song
                    has its own page.

                    The link is:
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/00_songs.html

                    On the page, the songs all appear "alphabetically" by the
                    so-called 50-sound order (a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, ke, ko...)

                    Faves and songs of note:

                    Subaru (a depressing WWII song about soldiers going to their
                    fate, bidding farewell to the stars that govern their destiny;
                    "We are going -- farewell, O ye stars")
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/subaru.html

                    Soran bushi (so you can hear the tune w/o words in the way)
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/soranbushi.html

                    Yosaku
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yosaku.html

                    Chakkiri bushi
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/chakkiribushi.html

                    Ushiwaka maru
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/ushiwaka.html

                    Fuji no yama
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/fujiyama.html

                    Bear in the Woods
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/morinokuma.html
                    Yesterday
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/yesterday.html
                    (okay, I'm kidding about these two)

                    Aa, jinsei ni namida ari (Ah, there are tears in life -- the
                    theme song of the TV series Mito Komon)
                    http://www.mahoroba.ne.jp/~gonbe007/hog/shouka/aajinseini.html

                    ********

                    Next is a site called "The world of minyo" -- it's a
                    Japanese site, of course, but a good resource. The link is:
                    http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/

                    One of the pages on that site has midi downloads (just
                    music, no words):
                    http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/nihon-minyou/dl/dl.htm

                    Soran bushi
                    http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/souran_s.mid

                    Kuroda bushi
                    http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pst/douyou-syouka/03nihon/kuroda_s.mid

                    *******

                    I hope this is of some help.


                    Effingham
                    --

                    Anthony J. Bryant
                    Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                    Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                    http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                    All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
                    http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo




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                    ---------------------------------






                    ---------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Photos
                    Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

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                  • Anthony Bryant
                    ... Glad to help. Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 12, 2006
                      JESSICA DODGE wrote:

                      > THANK YOU! This will take me a while to explore, but this is great. I
                      > will certianly indever to learn some period songs, or at least period
                      > sounding.

                      Glad to help. <G>

                      Effingham
                      --

                      Anthony J. Bryant
                      Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                      Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                      http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                      All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
                      http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
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