Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-JML] Re: A few over-robe questions

Expand Messages
  • JESSICA DODGE
    Yamana-dono wrote: Also from the pictures i m looking at from the ... Hotaru asks: Should this be a rule of thumb? It would be nice to have it just to the
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 13, 2005
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Yamana-dono wrote:

      Also from the pictures i'm looking at from the
      > costume museum, the
      > coller (eri?) seems to be about knee length on the
      > lady wearing it.

      Woeford-dodno wrote:
      > Correct.

      Hotaru asks:
      Should this be a rule of thumb? It would be nice to
      have it just to the knees.
      Hotaru Yamano

      --- wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

      > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Yamana Hitomi
      > <yamana.hitomi@c...> wrote:
      > > There are a few very nice sited with instructions
      > on how
      > > to make kosode (underrobes, right?) but I haven't
      > found anything on the
      > > sleeve diffrences in the hitoe. How long are
      > they?
      >
      > Lucky for you I'm doing some "maintenance" on my
      > court clothing as
      > indoor event season gets into full swing. ;->
      >
      > Dimensions are 16 to 16.5" panel width x 30" long
      > (folded for for 15")
      > so that gives you a 16" to 16.5" sleeve length from
      > shoulder seam to
      > somewhere beyond your hand (unless you have *really*
      > long arms). Hitoe
      > and uchigi have fully open sleeves at the wrist end
      > and are open at
      > the back below the attachment seam at the shoulder.
      > Kosode have a
      > closed front seam on the sleeve front - other than
      > that, construction
      > is pretty much the same.
      >
      > > Also from the pictures i'm looking at from the
      > costume museum, the
      > coller (eri?) seems to be about knee length on the
      > lady wearing it.
      >
      > Correct.
      >
      > Hope this helps.
      > Saionji no Hanae, West Kingdom
      >
      >
      >
      >





      __________________________________
      Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
      http://mail.yahoo.com
    • wodeford
      ... I ve made them shorter (ran out of fabric and ended mine just below the waist!), but here s a screen painting from the 16th century - you can see the eri
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 13, 2005
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, JESSICA DODGE <kaythiarain@y...> wrote:
        > Hotaru asks:
        > Should this be a rule of thumb? It would be nice to
        > have it just to the knees.

        I've made them shorter (ran out of fabric and ended mine just below
        the waist!), but here's a screen painting from the 16th century - you
        can see the eri ending at about that length on a number of the girls'
        outer robes.

        http://tinyurl.com/asf8j

        Saionji
      • Yamana Hitomi
        Konichiwa! ... Ah! but when I make the sleeves 15 they look really short, and I m not tall ( about 5 3 ) They look about twice as long in the pictures you
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 13, 2005
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Konichiwa!

          >> There are a few very nice sited with instructions on how
          >>to make kosode (underrobes, right?) but I haven't found anything on the
          >>sleeve diffrences in the hitoe. How long are they?
          >>
          >>
          >
          >Lucky for you I'm doing some "maintenance" on my court clothing as
          >indoor event season gets into full swing. ;->
          >
          >Dimensions are 16 to 16.5" panel width x 30" long (folded for for 15")
          >so that gives you a 16" to 16.5" sleeve length from shoulder seam to
          >somewhere beyond your hand (unless you have *really* long arms). Hitoe
          >and uchigi have fully open sleeves at the wrist end and are open at
          >the back below the attachment seam at the shoulder. Kosode have a
          >closed front seam on the sleeve front - other than that, construction
          >is pretty much the same.
          >
          >
          >
          >>Also from the pictures i'm looking at from the costume museum, the
          >>
          >>
          >coller (eri?) seems to be about knee length on the lady wearing it.
          >
          >Correct.
          >
          >Hope this helps.
          >Saionji no Hanae, West Kingdom
          >
          >
          >
          Ah! but when I make the sleeves 15" they look really short, and I'm not
          tall ("about 5'3") They look about twice as long in the pictures you
          have here: http://www.wodefordhall.com/display.htm hence the confusion

          >Can you tell us what period you're interested in? That will make a
          >difference so far as how the hitoe are made...
          >
          >Kiri
          >
          I waffle between Heian and Kamakura...I guess it depends on how lazy I
          am and what I have planned for the day.

          Thanks,

          Hitomi
        • wodeford
          ... Wait, is that too long or too short? And remember, the average Asian lady is closer to your size than mine (5 6 , Size 16 dresses)! Big and voluminous is
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 13, 2005
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Yamana Hitomi <yamana.hitomi@c...> wrote:


            > Ah! but when I make the sleeves 15" they look really short, and I'm not
            > tall ("about 5'3") They look about twice as long in the pictures you
            > have here: http://www.wodefordhall.com/display.htm hence the confusion

            Wait, is that too long or too short? And remember, the average Asian
            lady is closer to your size than mine (5'6", Size 16 dresses)! Big and
            voluminous is the whole point of Heian styles. Conspicuous consumption
            equals wealth and importance.

            Have we met? I know I've met Tsurumi-hime and Yoshiaki-dono.....

            Saionji (Makiwara)
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! kosode literally means short sleaves and generally refers to what Americans today might call a kimono . The sleave
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 13, 2005
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig! "kosode" literally means "short sleaves" and
              generally refers to what Americans today might call a "kimono". The
              sleave shape for pre-modern kosode was a bit different than what is
              common today. Regardless, the "kosode" is not really an undergarment
              any more than a shirt is an undergarment. In both cases, their exist
              items of clothing which can be worn over, but not under, them.

              Regardless, the color like part of kosode and similar garments tends to
              be fairly long. Generally speaking, at least to waist height.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Solveig Throndardottir
              Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... It sounds to me like you like the period of about the Genpei War and are waffling about whether to be kuge
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 13, 2005
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Noble Cousin!

                Greetings from Solveig!
                > I waffle between Heian and Kamakura...I guess it depends on how lazy I
                > am and what I have planned for the day.
                It sounds to me like you like the period of about the Genpei War and
                are waffling about whether to be kuge (aristocratic class) or buke
                (military class).

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                | the trash by my email filters. |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Yamana Hitomi
                Wait, is that too long or too short? And remember, the average Asian ... The 15 sleeves look too short to me. I experimented with half the body length before
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 15, 2005
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Wait, is that too long or too short? And remember, the average Asian

                  >lady is closer to your size than mine (5'6", Size 16 dresses)! Big and
                  >voluminous is the whole point of Heian styles. Conspicuous consumption
                  >equals wealth and importance.
                  >
                  >Have we met? I know I've met Tsurumi-hime and Yoshiaki-dono.....
                  >
                  >Saionji (Makiwara)
                  >
                  The 15" sleeves look too short to me. I experimented with half the body
                  length before folding, and that looked good at about 36" long finished,
                  but I wanted a second opinion. For refrence this is a cutting layout
                  that I've used.

                  http://members.cox.net/yamana.hitomi/Kimono%20Cutting%20Layout%2036.pdf

                  We have not met, but I've known Yoshiaki-dono since highschool.

                  Hitomi
                • wodeford
                  ... body ... Look at the proportions on this 16th century garment: http://www3.kyohaku.go.jp/knm/pict/c019185.jpg And on the kids playing in this 16th century
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 15, 2005
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Yamana Hitomi <yamana.hitomi@c...> wrote:
                    > The 15" sleeves look too short to me. I experimented with half the
                    body
                    > length before folding, and that looked good at about 36" long finished,
                    > but I wanted a second opinion. For refrence this is a cutting layout
                    > that I've used.

                    Look at the proportions on this 16th century garment:
                    http://www3.kyohaku.go.jp/knm/pict/c019185.jpg

                    And on the kids playing in this 16th century screen:
                    http://www.wodefordhall.com/paddle2.jpg

                    Period kosode have small sleeves.

                    I'm three inches taller than you, have very long arms and a 16" to
                    16.5" X 30" sleeve panel is plenty big on me.
                    http://www.wodefordhall.com/yellowfront.jpg
                    Remember too, your shoulder seams will be well below the shoulder, so
                    that will drop the sleeve down your arm a bit.

                    Saionji
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.