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Pieced and particolored garments, was Re: Opinion on pattern

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  • makiwara_no_yetsuko
    ... I thought I said in my previous post that Noma says that what probably began as fabric re-use in the lower classes caught on as a fashion trend. Speaking
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 4, 2005
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      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig <nostrand@a...> wrote:
      > There does appear to be stuff like this in the clothing of youths
      > during the Muromachi period. I don't believe that the intent is to
      > reuse cloth so much as to make the garment as gaudy as possible.
      I thought I said in my previous post that Noma says that what probably
      began as fabric re-use in the lower classes caught on as a fashion
      trend. Speaking of which, there's a positively hideous dofuku in Noma
      dating from about 1560 that belonged to Uesugi Kenshin that makes the
      ball player on the screen painting look positively conservative. It
      almost looks like a crazy quilt only it's kosode shaped. ;->

      > Street scenes are interesting aren't they? Aside from the general
      > amusument of "power shopping", you should notice the preprinted
      > bolts of cloth on offer in the store.
      Oh yeah, it's excellent evidence of the kind of patterns that were
      available. The red and gold check and diamond patterns are wild,
      aren't they?

      > Incendentally, I would guess that the kosode being showed off is
      > either : 1) an order being delivered, 2) a store sample, or 3) a
      > used garment.
      Say, that reminds me, there's a scene in the film "Ugetsu" in which
      the potter visits a kosode shop and imagines making enough of a profit
      to dress his wife in something beautiful. Filmed in black and white,
      the sequence is so stunningly filmed, my friend and I were sighing
      over the garments on display. (This film needs to be released on DVD!)

      M.
    • Solveig
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Possible, but unlikely. Fashion tends to move downward throughout Japanese history. Also, cloth reuse tended to be of
      Message 2 of 30 , Jun 6, 2005
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!
        >I thought I said in my previous post that Noma says that what probably
        >began as fabric re-use in the lower classes caught on as a fashion
        >trend.
        Possible, but unlikely. Fashion tends to move downward throughout
        Japanese history. Also, cloth reuse tended to be of a rather
        different sort. Poor people had techniques for partial reweaving and
        patching worn clothing. Further, as I already mentioned, the practice
        was to progressively dye clothing in darker colours as it aged. The
        ultimate fate of cloth was either to be stripped and rewoven or used
        in the latrine. The monks recycled used latrine clothes for making
        kessa. These were pieced together. It sounds to me like Noma is
        trying to find a parallel with the European middle ages. The only way
        that I can see low class people piecing together cloth is if they
        were somehow obtaining cast offs from new bolts which were not large
        enough to make anything out of.
        >Speaking of which, there's a positively hideous dofuku in Noma
        >dating from about 1560 that belonged to Uesugi Kenshin that makes the
        >ball player on the screen painting look positively conservative. It
        >almost looks like a crazy quilt only it's kosode shaped. ;->
        Japanese ideas of stylish clothing, especially clothing worn by
        yournger Japanese, is not known for being subdued.
        >Say, that reminds me, there's a scene in the film "Ugetsu" in which
        >the potter visits a kosode shop and imagines making enough of a profit
        >to dress his wife in something beautiful. Filmed in black and white,
        >the sequence is so stunningly filmed, my friend and I were sighing
        >over the garments on display. (This film needs to be released on DVD!)
        It's really famous. Criterion will probably bring it out if you wait
        long enough.
        Currently, you can buy it on VHS in the United States, but you can
        apparently only buy used copies in Japan. Maybe they will be
        bringning out a DVD fairly soon. One can always hope.
        --

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

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      • Jennifer Kobayashi
        ... FWIW: Liddell, Jill,_The Story of Kimono_,E P Dutton, NY,NY, 1989, ISBN 0-525-24574-X p.97 picture caption 90. Dofuku owned by Uesugi Kenshin Seventeen
        Message 3 of 30 , Jun 6, 2005
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          --- makiwara_no_yetsuko
          <makiwara_no_yetsuko@...> wrote:


          > Speaking of which, there's a positively
          > hideous dofuku in Noma
          > dating from about 1560 that belonged to Uesugi
          > Kenshin that makes the
          > ball player on the screen painting look positively
          > conservative. It
          > almost looks like a crazy quilt only it's kosode
          > shaped. ;->
          >

          FWIW:

          Liddell, Jill,_The Story of Kimono_,E P Dutton, NY,NY,
          1989, ISBN 0-525-24574-X p.97 picture caption 90.

          Dofuku owned by Uesugi Kenshin

          Seventeen different kinds of costly Chinese brocades
          make up this patchwork coat that is said to have been
          given to a famous general by Nobunaga. It was the
          custom at the time of Momoyama to present to a man a
          patched garment made from pieces of cloth donated by
          his friends...

          Appears to be done in strips of crazy quilting. FWIW

          Ki no Izumi




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        • Solveig
          Noble Mkiwara. Greetings from Solveig! I rather enjoyed looking at your web site. You do include a nummber of examples of pieced garments from the Costume
          Message 4 of 30 , Jun 6, 2005
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            Noble Mkiwara.

            Greetings from Solveig! I rather enjoyed looking at your web site.
            You do include a nummber of examples of pieced garments from the
            Costume Museum. However, I do think suspect the import of the piecing
            in this garment is rather different from that being claimed that it
            was in imitation of the poor. The fabric in several of the pictures
            is from only two patterns and is arranged in a regular checkerboard.
            While this may have arisen indigenously, it is also possible that it
            is the result of European influence. Regardless, the overall effect
            is to make the garments rather more flashy.

            As for Uesugi Kenshin and his famous dofuku. He has been cited here
            before. What has not been offered is evidence that what was done was
            at all normative. I would actually suspect the opposite. Here is why.
            The normal order of things in medieval and modern Japan is for the
            lord to give clothing or in pre-Meiji times cloth in livery colours
            to the vassal. If you are interested in a cinematic presentation of
            this practice, you should note the end of Inagaki's Samurai I.
            However, this is not merely a cinematic invention. A number of years
            ago we were studying the life of Japanese map maker in Classical
            Japanese, and one of the things that came up was the cloth allowance
            he received each new year.

            just looked up "Doufuku" and its essential character explains a lot
            including the patchwork nature of the garment. The "Doufuku"
            originated in a long robe worn by Buddhist monks. Thus, like the
            kessa, it was originally a patchwork affair. The original intent was
            a humble garmennt expressing resignation from the world. Rich
            Buddhist priests converted the doufuku and the kessa into more
            luxurious garments by using NEW brocades and similar fabrics instead
            of the traditional rags. The result was that the lords of major
            temples would have luxurious garments. There is a fair amount of
            literature in medieval Japan criticizing Buddhist priests who covet
            luxurious robes.

            There was some emulation of the dofuku among the nobilityas early as
            the Heian period. The famous patchword doufuku was most likely
            presented to Uesugi Kenshin when he took the tonsure. Kenshin is an
            on'yomi (Chinese style) Houmyou (name in religion). Basically,
            Kenshin's vassals were competing for his favour when Kenshin became a
            lay monk by making donations for doufuku.
            --

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

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            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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          • Ii Saburou Katsumori (Joshua B.)
            ... Actually, I think there is a communication issue here: doufuku = Way + Clothes = A robe for a monk. doufuku = Body + Clothes = A jacket used as a
            Message 5 of 30 , Jun 6, 2005
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              On 6/6/05, Solveig <nostrand@...> wrote:

              > There was some emulation of the dofuku among the nobilityas early as
              > the Heian period. The famous patchword doufuku was most likely
              > presented to Uesugi Kenshin when he took the tonsure. Kenshin is an
              > on'yomi (Chinese style) Houmyou (name in religion). Basically,
              > Kenshin's vassals were competing for his favour when Kenshin became a
              > lay monk by making donations for doufuku.

              Actually, I think there is a communication issue here:

              doufuku = 'Way' + 'Clothes' => A robe for a monk.
              doufuku = 'Body' + "Clothes'=> A jacket used as a leisure garment
              since at least the Muromachi period, similar in some ways to a haori.

              I recommend 'doufuku' for the religious garment and 'doubuku' for the
              secular leisure garment.

              I'm not sure if it is the one Makiwara-dono is indicating, but there
              is a very nice doubuku that I recall being made of patches of rich and
              expensive fabrics. Possibly a very expensive and ostentatious view of
              'wabi and sabi'. Regardless, the one I saw was obviously a secular
              leisure garment.

              Ogami-gimi has a wonderful version that I saw--absolutely gorgeous!

              -Ii
            • Solveig
              Ii Dono! Greetings from Solveig! My source states that the secular garment is derived from the sectarian garment. I thought the question was partly one of
              Message 6 of 30 , Jun 6, 2005
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                Ii Dono!

                Greetings from Solveig! My source states that the secular garment is
                derived from the sectarian garment. I thought the question was partly
                one of origin of the garment.
                --

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

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                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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              • Ii Saburou Katsumori (Joshua B.)
                ... Might I ask your source? My understanding of the secular dobuku is that it was a merchant s coat that evolved into a leisure garment for the upper class
                Message 7 of 30 , Jun 7, 2005
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                  On 6/6/05, Solveig <nostrand@...> wrote:
                  > Ii Dono!
                  >
                  > Greetings from Solveig! My source states that the secular garment is
                  > derived from the sectarian garment. I thought the question was partly
                  > one of origin of the garment.

                  Might I ask your source?

                  My understanding of the secular dobuku is that it was a merchant's
                  coat that evolved into a leisure garment for the upper class (probably
                  because wealthy merchants were able to make them look so fabu, and
                  daimyo got jealous ;) ).

                  The clerical dofuku, however, appears to me to have more of an origin
                  in the clerical robes, such as the kyutai or soken, with which it
                  seems to hold much more in common, such as the open sleeves, and
                  pleated skirt.

                  I'll have to see if I still have the costuming dictionary reference I
                  found on this at one point, as that might clarify some of it.


                  -Ii
                • Solveig
                  Ii dono! Greetings from Solveig! I admit to a bit of lazyness in looking up this one. I simply looked it up in Frederic s Encylopdia of Japan published by
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jun 7, 2005
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                    Ii dono!

                    Greetings from Solveig! I admit to a bit of lazyness in looking up
                    this one. I simply looked it up in Frederic's Encylopdia of Japan
                    published by Harvard/Belknap Press.
                    Once I found the entry in Frederic, I didn't bother to go on to my
                    collection of kogojiten. I can do that.

                    >My understanding of the secular dobuku is that it was a merchant's
                    >coat that evolved into a leisure garment for the upper class (probably
                    >because wealthy merchants were able to make them look so fabu, and
                    >daimyo got jealous ;) ).

                    Frederic pretty much points things in the downward direction which is
                    the general trend in Japan. There are, of course, examples of things
                    which moved upward. Noh Originated as a theatre for the Buke, but has
                    anticedents in folk theatre. The wabi sabi tea ceremony of Sen no
                    Rikyuu was born through the intneraction of the buke and the merchant
                    class. The sencha ceremony originated with the merchant class. People
                    of higher rank practicing these arts are practicing an art form with
                    roots in lower classes. Even so, tea came over with Buddhist
                    missionaries.

                    >The clerical dofuku, however, appears to me to have more of an origin
                    >in the clerical robes, such as the kyutai or soken, with which it
                    >seems to hold much more in common, such as the open sleeves, and
                    >pleated skirt.

                    I think that Frederic is arguing that the patchwork motif originated
                    with the clerical doufuku which makes a good deal of sense.
                    --

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar

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