Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-JML] green and yellow dyes?

Expand Messages
  • Solveig
    Hachijo Kariyasu (Miscanthus tinctorius) SYNONYM(S) : Erianthus tinctorius Sieb. ex Steud., Saccharum tinctorium Steud. CHINESE : Qing mao. ENGLISH : Dyeing
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 31, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Hachijo Kariyasu"(Miscanthus tinctorius)
      SYNONYM(S) : Erianthus tinctorius Sieb. ex Steud., Saccharum tinctorium Steud.

      CHINESE : Qing mao.

      ENGLISH : Dyeing silver grass.

      FRENCH : Miscanthus des teinturiers.

      Miscanthus tinctorius nanus variegatus is well worth close inspection
      as the colouration of the various parts of the flower are stunning.
      A useful plant in a patio pot or planted beside a pond to give a
      compact Oriental look,
      The image was taken using the FV10D and it's own light source. The
      background was originally slightly confused so I used Paintshop Pro
      to replace the green background with black.

      http://www.grasses.co.uk/mistinct.jpg

      The plant appears to be a relative of sugarcane.

      Another plant that shows up a lot in searches is the safflower plant

      CATI CARTH Carthamus 326 Asteraceae
      Carthamus tinctorius L. safflower
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
      +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
      | trash by my email filters. |
      +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    • Audrey Bergeron-Morin
      ... I think Kass is right. Someone I know wanted to try dyeing linen with saffron, but they didn t want to spend too much money and bought cheap saffron .
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 31, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        > I read Kass McGann's experience with benihana, but it looks like that
        > the yellow color doesn't stick to cellulosic fibers. Does anyone have
        > any experience with using benihana?

        I think Kass is right. Someone I know wanted to try dyeing linen with
        saffron, but they didn't want to spend too much money and bought "cheap
        saffron". You've probably guessed it wasn't saffron at all, but safflower,
        and the dye just wouldn't take at all on linen. It ended up a pale, pale
        cream colour. The dye just washes out. What I don't know is if the use of a
        mordant or another process would change that.
      • michelle0097217
        ... You ve probably guessed it wasn t saffron at all, but safflower, ... pale ... use of a ... If the Japanese used it as a source for yellow, I m hoping that
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 1, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          > I think Kass is right. <snip>
          You've probably guessed it wasn't saffron at all, but safflower,
          > and the dye just wouldn't take at all on linen. It ended up a pale,
          pale
          > cream colour. The dye just washes out. What I don't know is if the
          use of a
          > mordant or another process would change that.

          If the Japanese used it as a source for yellow, I'm hoping that they
          had a process to marry it to hemp, or did they use the alternative dye
          plants, (kariyasu, kihada) to provide yellow?

          Thanks,

          Thessaliad
        • makiwara_no_yetsuko
          ... Kosode: 16th-19th Century Textiles from the Nomura Collection by Amanda Mayer Stinchecum has a section in the back on dye plants. I get the feeling that
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin"
            <audreybmorin3@h...> wrote:
            > > I read Kass McGann's experience with benihana, but it looks like that
            > > the yellow color doesn't stick to cellulosic fibers. Does anyone have
            > > any experience with using benihana?

            "Kosode: 16th-19th Century Textiles from the Nomura Collection" by
            Amanda Mayer Stinchecum has a section in the back on dye plants.

            I get the feeling that benibana doesn't stick well to much of
            anything. Benibana (Carthamus tinctorius or safflower)is light
            sensitive and depending on what you do with it will produce yellow,
            pinks and reds (add alkali, then neutralize with vinegar), lavender if
            top dyed with indigo. If you wring it out in water after dyeing, the
            yellow leaches right out.

            The cones, wood or bark of Yashabushi (Alnus firma Sieb. et. Zucc. a
            type of alder) will produce a golden yellow when boiled in water and
            mordanted with ash lye. You can deepen it to shades of brown or even
            black by adding repeated dips in iron. It is described as light fast
            and us described as "rubbed into linen to dye commoners' clothing
            brown" during the Nara period.

            Makiwara
          • Date Saburou Yukiie
            Greetings all - Once again I am at it, and have just posted a thing I hope will be usefull. I made a chart that hopefully people can cut and paste from, with
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 1, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Greetings all -
              Once again I am at it, and have just posted a thing I hope will be
              usefull.
              I made a chart that hopefully people can cut and paste from, with
              hiragana, katakana, and keyboard combinations on a Windows machine that
              let you type those goofy vowels with macrons over them.

              I will be adding Mac keyboards in the very near future.

              Again, the chart is in UTF-8 coding, which should work for most people,
              and you can reach it at:

              http://www.kabutographics.com in the projects section.

              If needed, I will post alternate coded versions...but we should be
              ok...UTF-8 is W3C compliant.

              Hope it is usefull.

              Date
            • Solveig
              Date Dono! Greetings from Solveig! ... I assume that you mean circumflex not macron. Circumflex belongs to most character sets, but macron does not. I believe
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 1, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Date Dono!

                Greetings from Solveig!

                >I made a chart that hopefully people can cut and paste from, with
                >hiragana, katakana, and keyboard combinations on a Windows machine that
                >let you type those goofy vowels with macrons over them.

                I assume that you mean circumflex not macron.
                Circumflex belongs to most character sets, but
                macron does not. I believe that macrons may be
                available if you are using unicode. While unicode
                is built into recent operating systems, a lot of
                folks are still using pre-unicode operating
                systems. In deference to those with older
                software, I urge you not to macrons in email. You
                can embed them in pdf files all you want. Please
                use circumflex instead.

                On a macintosh, a circumflex is placed over a
                vowel by holding down the [option] and [i] keys
                and then after releasing them typing the letter.
                Thus, û is produced by simultaneously typing
                [option] and [i] followed by a [u]. (Note. The
                square brackets are there to make them look like
                key caps.)

                Thus, one can type â, ê, ii, ô, û and make
                Hepburn and all of those Anglo-American Japan
                scholars happy. They get quite petulent when you
                don't use Hepburn. However, the Japanese do not,
                in general, use Hepburn. Japanese mostly do
                "wapuro Japanese" at the moment. This makes
                Anglo-American Japan scholars go appoplectic, but
                they can pout all they like, the Japanese
                language does ultimately belong to the Japanese.
                (Incidentally, my professor at the University of
                Toronto once fumed about what he called "wapuro
                Japanese" about ten years ago, but he can not
                hold back the sea of Japanese usage.)

                I learned wapuro Japanese in Japan via using it
                to type Japanese into computers for various
                work-related and personal purposes. At the time,
                some entry systems were really difficult. Canon
                had one of the best and NEC one of the worst. My
                Sharp MZ-2500 had a system almost as good as the
                Canon system. Apple's kotoeri is somewhat similar
                to these sytems.
                --

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
                +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
                | trash by my email filters. |
                +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              • Audrey Bergeron-Morin
                ... If I believe Kass site, yellow was also obtained from gardenia hulls and bark of the Amur cork tree . I don t know if any of those works on hemp, or
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 1, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  >> I think Kass is right. <snip>
                  > You've probably guessed it wasn't saffron at all, but safflower,
                  >> and the dye just wouldn't take at all on linen. It ended up a pale,
                  > pale
                  >> cream colour. The dye just washes out. What I don't know is if the
                  > use of a
                  >> mordant or another process would change that.
                  >
                  > If the Japanese used it as a source for yellow, I'm hoping that they
                  > had a process to marry it to hemp, or did they use the alternative dye
                  > plants, (kariyasu, kihada) to provide yellow?

                  If I believe Kass' site, yellow was also obtained "from gardenia hulls and
                  bark of the Amur cork tree". I don't know if any of those works on hemp, or
                  cotton for that matter.
                • James Eckman
                  ... Interesting, but nowadays I never see Romaji with anything strange but dashes for long vowels sometimes. Several of my Japanese friends use English
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 1, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >
                    >
                    > From: "Date Saburou Yukiie" <kabuto@...> Again, the chart
                    > is in UTF-8 coding, which should work for most people, and you can
                    > reach it at: http://www.kabutographics.com in the projects section. If
                    > needed, I will post alternate coded versions...but we should be
                    > ok...UTF-8 is W3C compliant. Hope it is usefull.
                    >
                    Interesting, but nowadays I never see Romaji with anything strange but
                    dashes for long vowels sometimes. Several of my Japanese friends use
                    English keyboards, so they type two characters, ka for the one kana. The
                    few times they use Romaji, I think they just turn off the convert
                    function! If your going to put goofy characters in e-mails, why not just
                    send the actual kana? Or just do the wapuro thing and type your long
                    vowels twice?

                    P.S. For some reason, my UTF-8 font won't display macrons!

                    > Subject: Re: Octopus Hands Greetings from Solveig!
                    >
                    >I assume that you mean circumflex not macron.
                    >Circumflex belongs to most character sets, but
                    >macron does not.
                    >
                    Seems to be true, note above comment.

                    >I believe that macrons may be available if you are using unicode. While unicode is built into recent operating systems, a lot of folks are still using pre-unicode operating systems.
                    >
                    Windows ME, pre-unicode :( Makes Open office a bit tougher to use,
                    though there is a new! DLL that's supposed to put Unicode compatibility
                    on 98 and ME. If there's interest I can let you know how it comes out.

                    >Thus, one can type â, ê, ii, ô, û and make
                    >Hepburn and all of those Anglo-American Japan
                    >scholars happy. They get quite petulent when you
                    >don't use Hepburn. However, the Japanese do not,
                    >in general, use Hepburn. Japanese mostly do
                    >"wapuro Japanese" at the moment. This makes
                    >Anglo-American Japan scholars go appoplectic, but
                    >they can pout all they like, the Japanese
                    >language does ultimately belong to the Japanese.
                    >
                    >
                    I agree!!! Lucky I'm not in academia so I can ignore that silliness
                    along with the 'official' Japanese method as well.

                    >I learned wapuro Japanese in Japan via using it
                    >to type Japanese into computers for various
                    >work-related and personal purposes. At the time,
                    >some entry systems were really difficult.
                    >
                    Kindly put indeed, systems from hell come to mind. But then try to find
                    a setting in Windows XP without using Google. Software people shouldn't
                    be trusted with user interface design.

                    Jim Eckman
                  • Date Saburou Yukiie
                    James, Everything you and Solvieg said is true - I just am posting a possible resource for people to use in what ever documents they want, if they can find it
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 2, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      James,
                      Everything you and Solvieg said is true - I just am posting a
                      possible resource for people to use in what ever documents they want,
                      if they can find it useful.
                      I do not use the special coding in e-mails, as e-mail clients tend to
                      be the most unstable of critters - I use the Wapuro way.

                      I also realize that there are many different codings, and your usage
                      may vary, if even at all. Some people's browsers are not set up to
                      read Japanese or unicode...others do not have fonts, etc. This I
                      cannot help, of course.

                      Personally, I love the Kotoeri that Mac uses - especially the new and
                      elegant Panther OS...I like it much better than the Windows Japanese
                      IME, which is functional at best, if set up right...and a bear if not.

                      The pages I put up are a set of tools - that is all - not the be-all-
                      end-all swiss army web pages of web pages...but perhaps even if one
                      forgets a kana, or whaever...it is there to look at.

                      I do a lot of work with Chinese also, and the extra characters with
                      the goofies on top (copy-righted technical term) are useful there.
                      Thus their inclusion.

                      Take Care.
                      Date Saburou Yukiie
                      Yama Kaminari Ryu


                      > Interesting, but nowadays I never see Romaji with anything strange
                      but
                      > dashes for long vowels sometimes. Several of my Japanese friends
                      use
                      > English keyboards, so they type two characters, ka for the one
                      kana. The
                      > few times they use Romaji, I think they just turn off the convert
                      > function! If your going to put goofy characters in e-mails, why not
                      just
                      > send the actual kana? Or just do the wapuro thing and type your
                      long
                      > vowels twice?
                      >
                      > P.S. For some reason, my UTF-8 font won't display macrons!
                      >
                      > > Subject: Re: Octopus Hands Greetings from Solveig!
                      > >
                      > >I assume that you mean circumflex not macron.
                      > >Circumflex belongs to most character sets, but
                      > >macron does not.
                      > >
                      > Seems to be true, note above comment.
                      >
                      > >I believe that macrons may be available if you are using unicode.
                      While unicode is built into recent operating systems, a lot of folks
                      are still using pre-unicode operating systems.
                      > >
                      > Windows ME, pre-unicode :( Makes Open office a bit tougher to use,
                      > though there is a new! DLL that's supposed to put Unicode
                      compatibility
                      > on 98 and ME. If there's interest I can let you know how it comes
                      out.
                      >
                      > >Thus, one can type â, ê, ii, ô, û and make
                      > >Hepburn and all of those Anglo-American Japan
                      > >scholars happy. They get quite petulent when you
                      > >don't use Hepburn. However, the Japanese do not,
                      > >in general, use Hepburn. Japanese mostly do
                      > >"wapuro Japanese" at the moment. This makes
                      > >Anglo-American Japan scholars go appoplectic, but
                      > >they can pout all they like, the Japanese
                      > >language does ultimately belong to the Japanese.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > I agree!!! Lucky I'm not in academia so I can ignore that silliness
                      > along with the 'official' Japanese method as well.
                      >
                      > >I learned wapuro Japanese in Japan via using it
                      > >to type Japanese into computers for various
                      > >work-related and personal purposes. At the time,
                      > >some entry systems were really difficult.
                      > >
                      > Kindly put indeed, systems from hell come to mind. But then try to
                      find
                      > a setting in Windows XP without using Google. Software people
                      shouldn't
                      > be trusted with user interface design.
                      >
                      > Jim Eckman
                    • Solveig
                      Date Dono! Greetings from Solveig! ... I m skipping a generation of MacOS. I am going directly from Jaguar to Tiger. Hmm. I just realized that I was born in
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 3, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Date Dono!

                        Greetings from Solveig!

                        >Personally, I love the Kotoeri that Mac uses - especially the new and
                        >elegant Panther OS...I like it much better than the Windows Japanese
                        >IME, which is functional at best, if set up right...and a bear if not.

                        I'm skipping a generation of MacOS. I am going directly from Jaguar
                        to Tiger. Hmm. I just realized that I was born in the year of the
                        tiger, so I guess that it makes sense that I would buy tiger.

                        >I do a lot of work with Chinese also, and the extra characters with
                        >the goofies on top (copy-righted technical term) are useful there.
                        >Thus their inclusion.

                        You can not copyright technical terms. You may be able to trademark
                        them, but you can not copyright them. So just stick an (R) or (TM)
                        after it, and tell us what it is called.
                        --

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar

                        +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
                        +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
                        | trash by my email filters. |
                        +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      • Date Saburou Yukiie
                        ... I just love you, Solveig! Glad you are on Our Side! Date (PS:With the amount of artwork I produce, you may be assured I know about copyright, and
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 3, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > >I do a lot of work with Chinese also, and the extra characters with
                          > >the goofies on top (copy-righted technical term) are useful there.
                          > >Thus their inclusion.
                          >
                          > You can not copyright technical terms. You may be able to trademark
                          > them, but you can not copyright them. So just stick an (R) or (TM)
                          > after it, and tell us what it is called.
                          > --
                          >
                          > Your Humble Servant
                          > Solveig Throndardottir
                          > Amateur Scholar
                          >


                          I just love you, Solveig! Glad you are on "Our Side!"

                          Date

                          (PS:With the amount of artwork I produce, you may be assured I know
                          about copyright, and trademarking and such...I did not expect to get
                          taken literally! :-) )
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.