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How do you 'prove' a Japanese name?

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  • Mara
    I think I have choosen a name: Morikawa no Tsuruku And now I need to know how to go about finding proof for the Heralds, please.
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 18, 2005
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      I think I have choosen a name:

      Morikawa no Tsuruku

      And now I need to know how to go about finding proof for the
      Heralds, please.
    • makiwara_no_yetsuko
      ... Well.....where did you get the name elements you picked in the first place? Makiwara the undocumentable
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 18, 2005
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        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Mara" <mnv@v...> wrote:
        >
        > I think I have choosen a name:
        >
        > Morikawa no Tsuruku
        >
        > And now I need to know how to go about finding proof for the
        > Heralds, please.

        Well.....where did you get the name elements you picked in the first
        place?

        Makiwara the undocumentable
      • Dean Wayland
        Greetings Date-dono, with apologies to all others upon this list. Date-dono, following on from your last two messages asking if I had received the Satsuma
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 19, 2005
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          Greetings Date-dono, with apologies to all others upon this list.

          Date-dono, following on from your last two messages asking if I had
          received the Satsuma video, I'm not sure, but are you having problems
          with your email? I've replied to both of your previous messages, but I'm
          not convinced that you got the last one either. So, just in case below
          is a copy of my last reply, which incorporates the first.

          Yours

          Dean
          ***
          Message sent 15th March 2005:

          Hi there Chris,

          >Dean - did you finally get the video I sent you?
          >Date

          H'mm?

          Yes, it arrived last Thursday (10th March), then I sent you an email in
          response to yours right after getting and viewing it, which judging by
          your above message, you didn't receive. This explains why I hadn't had
          your reply to my subsequent enquiry. I sent it to this email address
          too. Anyway below is my message again.

          Much thanks.

          Yours

          Dean
          ***

          Hi Chris,

          >I hope the coming of spring makes you as happy as it does me - We have had a
          >reasonably harsh winter here in Ohio, and I am very tired of the cold and nasty
          >weather.

          Like you, I am glad to see the back of the winter and the appearance of
          this years catkins that herald in the spring. Fortunately our winter was
          not harsh like your own, but just wet, and certainly not as bad as a
          couple of years ago. For my sins I and my other half (Mary) own and look
          after a herd of pet pigs, which means we have to be out in all weathers,
          so, both for us and for my little gang of furry horrors, the arrival of
          finer weather is very welcome.

          >Well...
          >I have sent off another copy of the Long ago promised Satsuma Kyujutsu video.
          >I truely hope this package finds you.
          >Take care and please let me know if you get it.
          >Once again, I am sorry for the delays...

          Well, today has been a very good day indeed, not only did a parcel
          containing four sets of pole-carrying brackets for hitsu turn up, but
          your video also, yippee!

          I've just watched it, absolutely excellent, exactly what I was hoping
          for. I just wish that I spoke Japanese:-( Thanks for the extras too,
          terrific! Several folks have already asked me for copies, so it'll be
          doing the rounds shortly, opening minds and letting in the light. I
          loved the tactical demonstrations. So, with luck, we'll be putting our
          new found knowledge to good use later in the year, along with all the
          new kit that is currently making its appearance. Speaking of which...

          I am very interested in your wicker work ebira and would like to place
          an order, but first a few questions:

          1 Does this ebira have internal divisions to secure each of the six
          arrows?

          2. Are SCA combat arrows 2.5" in diameter, or 2", with the ebira having
          an allowance for an internal divider? The arrows we use over here are
          made of closed cell foam, coated in latex, currently in a standard 2"
          diameter.

          3. If your arrows are 2.5", can the ebira's size be slightly varied from
          that specified, to allow for our slightly smaller arrow heads?

          4. On your page you say that all materials are natural, including silk,
          presumably for the ties, but is your cordage real kumihimo? If not, how
          do you feel about getting some in for our ebira? Toraba.com now carry a
          wide range of lacing and cordage, and if you haven't seen them yet, an
          excellent range of printed deer skins.

          5. Finally, roughly how long is your delivery time at the moment, any
          chance you could build and deliver an ebira by mid-June?

          >As for the e-mail crashing your machine, there is no real reason why that should
          >happen from my end. I have checked the coding and all seems well.

          Not to worry, I suspect it was a clash between my speech/text-
          magnifier/browser/email packages, which can sometimes struggle when all
          working at the same time. But thanks for checking out your coding, its
          appreciated.

          Anyway, thanks again for the video and I look forward to hearing from
          you about the ebira.

          Yours

          Dean
          ***
          Dean Wayland
          Head Of The Fight School
          http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
        • Solveig
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I m afraid that you will probably not make very many heralds happy. The problem is that you appear to want to do what
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 20, 2005
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig! I'm afraid that you will probably not make
            very many heralds happy. The problem is that you appear to want to do
            what heralds call "retro documentation". That is you come up with
            something, and then ask them to document it for you. That is backward
            from what they really want you to do. What they want you to do is to
            do a bit of research and pick something historic. If you do that,
            then you will have already documented your name for yourself.

            Turning to what you propose. First of all. I do not know where you
            are getting Tsuruku. It just doesn't sound quite right to me at the
            moment. That doesn't mean that it isn't, it just means that I am not
            sure that it is a plausible Japanese name.

            As for Morikawa. Morikawa might be a reasonble Japanese name, but I
            am not sure that it is slotted correctly. Your construction is saying
            that Morikawa is an uji. Fortunately for me at least, I can rather
            simply check whether it is one of the more easily documented uji.
            Unfortunately for you, it isn't one of the readily documentable uji.
            There is a somewhat similar sounding uji. You could possibly be

            Moriyama no <name>

            as Moriyama is a documentable uji dating from say the Nara period or
            earlier. Now then, for the general form. The general form works for
            women up through the middle Kamakura period. After that, it doesn't.
            You should first decide which exact period you want your name to come
            from. This will determine the genreal naming style and the type of
            given name which would be appropriate.

            Finally, no you can not just make up an uji. Their creation was
            regulated by the emperor just about as far back as we have written
            Japanese history. And, no not all Japanese family names are uji
            names. There are far far more Japanese family names than there are
            Japanese uji names.
            --

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
            +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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          • Mara
            Let s see, Morikawa no Tsuruku, I got Morikawa I found at Anthony Bryant s website under some surnames of families active prior to 1600 Tsuruku is from you
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 20, 2005
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              Let's see, Morikawa no Tsuruku,

              I got Morikawa I found at Anthony Bryant's website under "some
              surnames of families active prior to 1600"

              Tsuruku is from you Solveig, in this email you sent me.
              "Greetings from Solveig! Would you possibly be willing to split up
              the red and crane parts of your name? For example, you might be
              Akamatsu Tsuruko. Both Akamatsu and Tsuruko are real Japanese names.
              Akamatsu means "red pine tree" and Tsuruku basically means "lady
              crane".

              Maybe I misunderstood something. -Mara


              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig <nostrand@a...> wrote:
              > Turning to what you propose. First of all. I do not know where you
              > are getting Tsuruku. It just doesn't sound quite right to me at
              the
              > moment. That doesn't mean that it isn't, it just means that I am
              not
              > sure that it is a plausible Japanese name.
              >
              > As for Morikawa. Morikawa might be a reasonble Japanese name, but
              I
              > am not sure that it is slotted correctly. Your construction is
              saying
              > that Morikawa is an uji. Fortunately for me at least, I can
              rather
              > simply check whether it is one of the more easily documented uji.
              > Unfortunately for you, it isn't one of the readily documentable
              uji.
              > There is a somewhat similar sounding uji. You could possibly be
              >
              > Moriyama no <name>
              >
              > as Moriyama is a documentable uji dating from say the Nara period
              or
              > earlier. Now then, for the general form. The general form works
              for
              > women up through the middle Kamakura period. After that, it
              doesn't.
              > You should first decide which exact period you want your name to
              come
              > from. This will determine the genreal naming style and the type of
              > given name which would be appropriate.
            • John Mooers
              Noble Lady, I doubt that some in the College will ever be happy with any oriental name, yet would not blink with the gentle soul who attempts to register
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 20, 2005
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                Noble Lady,
                I doubt that some in the College will ever be happy with any oriental name,
                yet would not blink with the gentle soul who attempts to register "Richard
                of Shropshire" or somelike. Quite a quandry since the best documented
                names are also those that by their very noteworthiness makes them off
                limits as much as Harold Godwindson.

                Date Toshinobu
                Undocumented Illegal Alien
                Atlantia

                Solveig <nostrand@...> wrote:
                Noble Cousin!

                Greetings from Solveig! I'm afraid that you will probably not make
                very many heralds happy. The problem is that you appear to want to do
                what heralds call "retro documentation". That is you come up with
                something, and then ask them to document it for you. That is backward
                from what they really want you to do. What they want you to do is to
                do a bit of research and pick something historic. If you do that,
                then you will have already documented your name for yourself.

                Turning to what you propose. First of all. I do not know where you
                are getting Tsuruku. It just doesn't sound quite right to me at the
                moment. That doesn't mean that it isn't, it just means that I am not
                sure that it is a plausible Japanese name.

                As for Morikawa. Morikawa might be a reasonble Japanese name, but I
                am not sure that it is slotted correctly. Your construction is saying
                that Morikawa is an uji. Fortunately for me at least, I can rather
                simply check whether it is one of the more easily documented uji.
                Unfortunately for you, it isn't one of the readily documentable uji.
                There is a somewhat similar sounding uji. You could possibly be

                Moriyama no <name>

                as Moriyama is a documentable uji dating from say the Nara period or
                earlier. Now then, for the general form. The general form works for
                women up through the middle Kamakura period. After that, it doesn't.
                You should first decide which exact period you want your name to come
                from. This will determine the genreal naming style and the type of
                given name which would be appropriate.

                Finally, no you can not just make up an uji. Their creation was
                regulated by the emperor just about as far back as we have written
                Japanese history. And, no not all Japanese family names are uji
                names. There are far far more Japanese family names than there are
                Japanese uji names.
                --

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
                +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
                | trash by my email filters. |
                +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+


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              • Solveig
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Tsuruku and Tsuruko are completely different propositioins. You can not just go swapping vowels willy nilly.
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 20, 2005
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                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig!

                  >Let's see, Morikawa no Tsuruku,

                  Tsuruku and Tsuruko are completely different propositioins. You can
                  not just go swapping vowels willy nilly. Otherwise, bitch, batch,
                  butch, and botch would
                  all be the same word.

                  >I got Morikawa I found at Anthony Bryant's website under "some
                  >surnames of families active prior to 1600"

                  You should not use a random surname in a <name> no <name> format. It
                  just does not work that way.
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:Solveig@... |
                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
                  | trash by my email filters. |
                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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