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Re: Folkwear Japanese Patterns

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  • makiwara_no_yetsuko
    ... http://folkwear-birchstreet.com/asian.html , #151 Japanese Hakama & Kataginu, #113 Japanese Kimono and #129 Japanese Hapi and Haori). I was wondering if
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 2, 2005
      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "John Hidalgo" <oniyama@t...> wrote:
      > Hello Everyone,
      >
      > I went ahead and ordered Folkwear's Japanese Patterns (see
      http://folkwear-birchstreet.com/asian.html , #151 Japanese Hakama &
      Kataginu, #113 Japanese Kimono and #129 Japanese Hapi and Haori). I
      was wondering if anyone else had used these patterns and had
      anything to share about them.

      I have not used these, but I know someone who had someone make him
      clothing using them. Folkwear's Japanese patterns are based
      on "traditional" ethnic styles (read Edo period). While the basic
      pattern pieces go together the same way, the dimensions and shapes
      will be somewhat different than those used during the 16th century.
      Please refer to my earlier post from this weekend.

      Makiwara
    • Elaine Koogler
      ... Other than the fact that the garments really aren t period, they are fine. I haven t actually used #113, but do know that the design for both the hakama
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 3, 2005
        John Hidalgo wrote:

        > Hello Everyone,
        >
        > I went ahead and ordered Folkwear's Japanese Patterns (see
        > http://folkwear-birchstreet.com/asian.html , #151 Japanese Hakama &
        > Kataginu, #113 Japanese Kimono and #129 Japanese Hapi and Haori). I
        > was wondering if anyone else had used these patterns and had anything
        > to share about them.
        >
        > Thanks for your help.
        >
        > Take care,
        > John Hidalgo
        > www.texasshinto.org

        Other than the fact that the garments really aren't period, they are
        fine. I haven't actually used #113, but do know that the design for
        both the hakama and kataginu aren't period....the kataginu is a much
        later design...the panels are pleated into the front band, whereas in
        period, it was more like a kosode with no sleeves and without the sides
        sewn together. The hakama are a bit closer, but they have a stiffened,
        wider back waistband which didn't come into use until the 17th century.
        So far as the haori and hapi pattern is concerned, the haori is similar
        to the doboku...and if you use the pattern as a "jumping off point", it
        can be adapted to something more accurate. Take a look at the models at
        the Costume Museum site http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/) and
        you'll see what I mean...also Hiraizumi-sensei's site
        (http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garb.html).

        Kiri
      • Solveig
        Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Aside from being comparatively modern, the folkwear patterns are for peasant clothing. For example, monpe are worn by
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 3, 2005
          Noble Cousins!

          Greetings from Solveig! Aside from being comparatively modern, the folkwear
          patterns are for peasant clothing. For example, monpe are worn by farmers in
          the fields and similar places. This is sort of like using a pattern for
          bib overalls to make clothing to wear to the signing of the declaration of
          independence.
          --

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

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        • Deborah K. Strub
          Greetings, As others have said, these patterns are for later periods than SCA. However, the #113 Kimono pattern is useful as a basic template as long as you
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 3, 2005
            Greetings,

            As others have said, these patterns are for later periods than SCA.
            However, the #113 Kimono pattern is useful as a basic template as long as
            you keep in mind the sleeve and collar differences for the various periods;
            the assembly of the component pieces is basically the same. The body panels
            are the modern standard 14" wide, but in period this could vary to as wide
            as 17". I usually recommend this pattern to those who HAVE to have a
            pattern and are just starting out in the SCA or with a Japanese persona
            because it is an adequate starting point. NOT perfect but adequate. If
            they're experienced sewers or have already done some homework then I show
            them how to draft their own. I started out using the Folkwear #113 around
            15-20 years ago because that was all I could find and didn't have the
            experience to make my own patterns. I now find it easier to just draft up
            my own but that's because I've been making the garments for a while and have
            done a bit of homework during the ensuing years.
            The hakama and kataginu are very modern as also mentioned before. Making a
            simple 4 or 6 panel period style hakama is much simpler than using the
            Folkwear pattern. If necessary you could probably get away with the hakama
            as long as you left out the large back support in the waistband. The
            kataginu is too obviously modern and I don't feel comfortable recommending
            it for SCA use.
            I've used the haori pattern to make my heraldic regalia and it worked quite
            nicely. It's modern but at the time that was the approved Japanese
            "equivalent" for the heraldic cloak and I didn't know any better. The thing
            is still in great shape despite years of abuse on the tourney field and in
            court.

            To sum up, I've used all of the Folkwear patterns you mention and I find
            many of them adequate for *starter* patterns while you do your research.
            You can then use them to build on or you can draft your own patterns
            depending on your sewing skill. I hope this is helpful.

            YIS,

            Murakami Tsuruko
            Baroness of Dragon's Laire
            Kingdom of An Tir

            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Hidalgo [mailto:oniyama@...]
            Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 7:45 PM
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SCA-JML] Folkwear Japanese Patterns



            Hello Everyone,

            I went ahead and ordered Folkwear's Japanese Patterns (see
            http://folkwear-birchstreet.com/asian.html , #151 Japanese Hakama &
            Kataginu, #113 Japanese Kimono and #129 Japanese Hapi and Haori). I was
            wondering if anyone else had used these patterns and had anything to share
            about them.

            Thanks for your help.

            Take care,
            John Hidalgo
            www.texasshinto.org
            www.roundrockbujinkan.com
            "Seek freedom and become a slave to your desires. Seek discipline and
            discover your liberty."




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • Solveig
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Are you sure that it is a kosode pattern and not a yukata pattern? Kosode and yukata have somewhat different construction
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig! Are you sure that it is a kosode pattern and not
              a yukata pattern? Kosode and yukata have somewhat different construction
              and are even folded differently.

              Wasn't Baron Edward working on a set of patterns?
              --

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
              +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
              | trash by my email filters. |
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            • Audrey Bergeron-Morin
              ... This is my main problem: how do I find the sleeve and collar differences for various periods? Some details are pretty hard to see on pictures! (Planning on
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
                > As others have said, these patterns are for later periods than SCA.
                > However, the #113 Kimono pattern is useful as a basic template as long as
                > you keep in mind the sleeve and collar differences for the various
                > periods;

                This is my main problem: how do I find the sleeve and collar differences for
                various periods? Some details are pretty hard to see on pictures! (Planning
                on Heian, in case anyone has a great site to forward me to)
              • makiwara_no_yetsuko
                ... SCA. ... as long as ... various ... differences for ... (Planning ... http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/Jap123s.html has cutting diagrams for
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin"
                  <audreybmorin3@h...> wrote:
                  > > As others have said, these patterns are for later periods than
                  SCA.
                  > > However, the #113 Kimono pattern is useful as a basic template
                  as long as
                  > > you keep in mind the sleeve and collar differences for the
                  various
                  > > periods;
                  >
                  > This is my main problem: how do I find the sleeve and collar
                  differences for
                  > various periods? Some details are pretty hard to see on pictures!
                  (Planning
                  > on Heian, in case anyone has a great site to forward me to)

                  http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/Jap123s.html has
                  cutting diagrams for Heian.

                  Makiwara
                • Audrey Bergeron-Morin
                  ... Thank you. Those cutting diagrams are for kosode. Can I use them for uchigi as well?
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 10, 2005
                    > > This is my main problem: how do I find the sleeve and collar
                    > differences for
                    > > various periods? Some details are pretty hard to see on pictures!
                    > (Planning
                    > > on Heian, in case anyone has a great site to forward me to)
                    >
                    > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/japanese/Jap123s.html has
                    > cutting diagrams for Heian.
                    >
                    > Makiwara

                    Thank you.

                    Those cutting diagrams are for kosode. Can I use them for uchigi as well?
                  • makiwara_no_yetsuko
                    ... as well? Yep. The kosode has a closed front sleeve - like on modern kimono, but with a bit more curve at the bottom. (BTW, for wear under hakama or
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 10, 2005
                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Audrey Bergeron-Morin"
                      <audreybmorin3@h...> wrote:
                      > Those cutting diagrams are for kosode. Can I use them for uchigi
                      as well?

                      Yep. The kosode has a closed front sleeve - like on modern kimono,
                      but with a bit more curve at the bottom. (BTW, for wear under hakama
                      or nabagakama, you may be more comfortable making your kosode no
                      more than knee length.) For Heian, hitoe (the unlined underlayers)
                      and uchigi, the sleeve edges are left open so you can show off your
                      elegant taste in combining the layers beneath. Other than that, the
                      pieces of these garments get put together pretty much the same way.

                      Hope this helps.

                      Makiwara
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