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Fabric and dying question

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  • michelle0097217
    Greetings Noble Cousins: When preparing the fabric to make a garment do you: 1. Cut it into traditional widths first, then dye -or- 2. pattern the fabric
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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      Greetings Noble Cousins:

      When preparing the fabric to make a garment do you:

      1. Cut it into traditional widths first, then dye

      -or-

      2. pattern the fabric first, then cut?


      I'm thinking about playing with shibori, but I'm concerned about the
      selvedges. I was wondering if I should cut my lengths, finish the
      edges, prep the fabric, then make up the garment.

      OTOH, if anyone has an inexpensive source for undyed bolts of kimono
      fabric, that would render the point moot.

      Thank you!

      Thessaliad
    • Elaine Koogler
      ... I guess it depends on how you want the finished garment to look. If you want it to appear that the design is a part of the fabric itself...in other words,
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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        michelle0097217 wrote:

        >
        > Greetings Noble Cousins:
        >
        > When preparing the fabric to make a garment do you:
        >
        > 1. Cut it into traditional widths first, then dye
        >
        > -or-
        >
        > 2. pattern the fabric first, then cut?
        >
        >
        > I'm thinking about playing with shibori, but I'm concerned about the
        > selvedges. I was wondering if I should cut my lengths, finish the
        > edges, prep the fabric, then make up the garment.
        >
        > OTOH, if anyone has an inexpensive source for undyed bolts of kimono
        > fabric, that would render the point moot.
        >
        > Thank you!
        >
        > Thessaliad
        >
        >
        I guess it depends on how you want the finished garment to look. If you
        want it to appear that the design is a part of the fabric itself...in
        other words, look like it was cut out of a piece of fabric that had the
        design on it in the first place, you'd do the latter. Otherwise, you'd
        do the former. I'm not sure I know what your concern is with selvages,
        however. So far as undyed bolts of "kimono" fabric are concerned...what
        kind are you looking for? I believe you can probably find what you want
        (linen, ramie, silk, cotton) at Dharma Trading (www.dharmatrading.com),
        and at very reasonable prices.

        Kiri
      • Date Saburou Yukiie
        Konnichi wa, tomodachi... Now I am all about the concept of guilds keeping their secrets...sorta...but I have been using a technique that is kinda cool -
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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          Konnichi wa, tomodachi...
          Now I am all about the concept of guilds keeping their
          secrets...sorta...but I have been using a technique that is kinda
          cool - mimics period methods...but is slightly more modern in terms
          of anachronism...
          I often use rubber cement instead of wax for setting up fabric
          patterns...
          If bought in proper industrial sizes...and used carefully...it is as
          good a resist as any...better than starch, I submit...because you can
          lay your pattern in...die the material...then pick the rubber cement
          boogers off with a rubber cement eraser...without needing to wash
          again...
          ooohhh....!!!
          rubber cement (if appropriately thined) can function as a dye
          resist...and is controlable with various
          media...brushes...sticks...sorrels...you get the point...
          the cool thing is that if one is willing to let things dry, and then
          takes the time to go back in and adjust their design...cool things
          can happen.

          Never fear having to go in and adjust...before you dip your fabric in
          the color...

          As for should fabric be patterned before it is sewn...I say it is
          often best...
          make the fabric the way you want it to look...then go in and cut it
          so your patterns line up...
          YES...this takes more fabric...
          YES...this will take more effort...
          YES...one needs to be more careful about the sewing process...
          YES...in the long run...you will have to remake fewer projects if you
          learn to match the patterns you have, instead of dying fabric in
          situe...
          YES...there is more effort involved...(did I mention that one must
          institute effort?)
          I say make the effort...your project will come out better...


          Date Saburou yukiie
          Yama Kaminari Ryu

          -- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@c...> wrote:
          > michelle0097217 wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Greetings Noble Cousins:
          > >
          > > When preparing the fabric to make a garment do you:
          > >
          > > 1. Cut it into traditional widths first, then dye
          > >
          > > -or-
          > >
          > > 2. pattern the fabric first, then cut?
          > >
          > >
          > > I'm thinking about playing with shibori, but I'm concerned about
          the
          > > selvedges. I was wondering if I should cut my lengths, finish the
          > > edges, prep the fabric, then make up the garment.
          > >
          > > OTOH, if anyone has an inexpensive source for undyed bolts of
          kimono
          > > fabric, that would render the point moot.
          > >
          > > Thank you!
          > >
          > > Thessaliad
          > >
          > >
          > I guess it depends on how you want the finished garment to look.
          If you
          > want it to appear that the design is a part of the fabric
          itself...in
          > other words, look like it was cut out of a piece of fabric that had
          the
          > design on it in the first place, you'd do the latter. Otherwise,
          you'd
          > do the former. I'm not sure I know what your concern is with
          selvages,
          > however. So far as undyed bolts of "kimono" fabric are
          concerned...what
          > kind are you looking for? I believe you can probably find what you
          want
          > (linen, ramie, silk, cotton) at Dharma Trading
          (www.dharmatrading.com),
          > and at very reasonable prices.
          >
          > Kiri
        • Deborah K. Strub
          Greetings, ... From: michelle0097217 [mailto:thessaliad@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:30 AM To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SCA-JML]
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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            Greetings,



            -----Original Message-----
            From: michelle0097217 [mailto:thessaliad@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:30 AM
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SCA-JML] Fabric and dying question




            Greetings Noble Cousins:

            When preparing the fabric to make a garment do you:

            1. Cut it into traditional widths first, then dye

            -or-

            2. pattern the fabric first, then cut?


            I'm thinking about playing with shibori, but I'm concerned about the
            selvedges. I was wondering if I should cut my lengths, finish the
            edges, prep the fabric, then make up the garment.

            OTOH, if anyone has an inexpensive source for undyed bolts of kimono
            fabric, that would render the point moot.

            Thank you!

            Thessaliad






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          • Deborah K. Strub
            Greetings, I recommend getting your undyed yardage and wash it. Then dye it. Cut it into the traditional widths AFTER you dye it (unless you re lucky enough
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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              Greetings,

              I recommend getting your undyed yardage and wash it. Then dye it. Cut it
              into the traditional widths AFTER you dye it (unless you're lucky enough to
              find fabric already in the appropriate widths).
              I've done some cold water dyeing with Procion dyes on cotton and silks.
              Some fabrics may shrink when washed and/or dyed. If you're doing shibori
              (which I've also done) some techniques leave the shibori dyed yardage un
              ironed before making up into a garment, which takes up a lot of fabric
              length and/or width. If you cut your traditional widths out first you might
              find yourself short in one or more dimensions due to this "shrinkage".

              Before you do any dyeing process I strongly recommend finishing all cut
              edges of your yardage. The dye process and the shibori process are very
              abusive to the fabric and will cause unfinished edges to unravel. If you're
              lucky it will just be a little bit but some fabrics unravel really badly.

              YIS,

              Murakami Tsuruko

              -----Original Message-----
              From: michelle0097217 [mailto:thessaliad@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:30 AM
              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [SCA-JML] Fabric and dying question




              Greetings Noble Cousins:

              When preparing the fabric to make a garment do you:

              1. Cut it into traditional widths first, then dye

              -or-

              2. pattern the fabric first, then cut?


              I'm thinking about playing with shibori, but I'm concerned about the
              selvedges. I was wondering if I should cut my lengths, finish the
              edges, prep the fabric, then make up the garment.

              OTOH, if anyone has an inexpensive source for undyed bolts of kimono
              fabric, that would render the point moot.

              Thank you!

              Thessaliad






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            • Deborah K. Strub
              ... From: Deborah K. Strub [mailto:tsuruko@rainymountain.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:53 PM To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [SCA-JML]
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: Deborah K. Strub [mailto:tsuruko@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:53 PM
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Fabric and dying question



                Greetings,



                -----Original Message-----
                From: michelle0097217 [mailto:thessaliad@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:30 AM
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SCA-JML] Fabric and dying question




                Greetings Noble Cousins:

                When preparing the fabric to make a garment do you:

                1. Cut it into traditional widths first, then dye

                -or-

                2. pattern the fabric first, then cut?


                I'm thinking about playing with shibori, but I'm concerned about the
                selvedges. I was wondering if I should cut my lengths, finish the
                edges, prep the fabric, then make up the garment.

                OTOH, if anyone has an inexpensive source for undyed bolts of kimono
                fabric, that would render the point moot.

                Thank you!

                Thessaliad






                UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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              • J. Badgley
                I m sorry--I realize this is off-topic, but in my late night fog of perceptions, I misread the above topic, and my mind was thinking: Well, white would be the
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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                  I'm sorry--I realize this is off-topic, but in my late night fog of
                  perceptions, I misread the above topic, and my mind was thinking: "Well,
                  white would be the appropriate color fabric for dying, as 'shiro' and
                  'shi' are closely related in the shinto perspective. On the other hand,
                  red would hide the blood.

                  Something gold and gaudy might not be bad in the Momoyama era (or any good
                  Chambara flick), but dignity probably calls for something in earth tones
                  and rather somber--after all, one wouldn't want to be distracted by any
                  worldly attractions in their final moments which may plant a seed of
                  desire that would, as surely as an anchor, hold one's spirit tied to this
                  world.

                  Sorry for the diversion. I now return you to your regularly scheduled
                  conversations...

                  -Ii, thrown off by an errant stroke of the brush.
                • Elizabeth Chase
                  Date-dono, Somehow, the mental image of yourself as a might Samurai..... picking rubber cement boogers..... is precious.... especially when laid next to
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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                    Date-dono,

                    Somehow, the mental image of yourself as a might Samurai..... picking rubber cement boogers..... is precious.... especially when
                    laid next to your word paintings and descriptions of your archery.

                    Thank you,

                    Rizii

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: Date Saburou Yukiie

                    die the material...then pick the rubber cement
                    boogers off with a rubber cement eraser...without needing to wash
                    again...




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                    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Date Saburou Yukiie
                    Rizii-dono... I have been told I am a man of many tallents...who am I to argue?! ;-) Date ... rubber cement boogers..... is precious.... especially when
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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                      Rizii-dono...
                      I have been told I am a man of many tallents...who am I to argue?!
                      ;-)

                      Date

                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Chase" <elizabethlchase@m...>
                      wrote:
                      > Date-dono,
                      >
                      > Somehow, the mental image of yourself as a might Samurai..... picking
                      rubber cement boogers..... is precious.... especially when
                      > laid next to your word paintings and descriptions of your archery.
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      >
                      > Rizii
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      >
                      > From: Date Saburou Yukiie
                      >
                      > die the material...then pick the rubber cement
                      > boogers off with a rubber cement eraser...without needing to wash
                      > again...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---
                      > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                      > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                      > Version: 6.0.803 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Elizabeth Chase
                      Date-dono, Yep. Like mama said, sometimes it s best to keep quiet and nod your head. No point arguing with the truth. If I were less fogged up in the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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                        Date-dono,

                        Yep. Like mama said, sometimes it's best to keep quiet and nod your head. No point arguing with the truth.

                        If I were less fogged up in the synapse zone, I'd write a poem.....

                        Rizii
                        --who is looking forward to trying rubber cement boogers in the summer.....



                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Date Saburou Yukiie
                        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:00 PM
                        Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Fabric and dying question






                        Rizii-dono...
                        I have been told I am a man of many tallents...who am I to argue?!
                        ;-)

                        Date

                        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Chase" <elizabethlchase@m...>
                        wrote:
                        > Date-dono,
                        >
                        > Somehow, the mental image of yourself as a might Samurai..... picking
                        rubber cement boogers..... is precious.... especially when
                        > laid next to your word paintings and descriptions of your archery.
                        >
                        > Thank you,
                        >
                        > Rizii
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        >
                        > From: Date Saburou Yukiie
                        >
                        > die the material...then pick the rubber cement
                        > boogers off with a rubber cement eraser...without needing to wash
                        > again...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---
                        > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                        > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                        > Version: 6.0.803 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                      • makiwara_no_yetsuko
                        ... any good ... tones ... by any ... of ... to this ... How about gold AND somber tones? Rats, I can t FIND the blasted book just now, but there s a portrait
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 7, 2004
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                          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "J. Badgley" <logan@m...> wrote:
                          > Something gold and gaudy might not be bad in the Momoyama era (or
                          any good
                          > Chambara flick), but dignity probably calls for something in earth
                          tones
                          > and rather somber--after all, one wouldn't want to be distracted
                          by any
                          > worldly attractions in their final moments which may plant a seed
                          of
                          > desire that would, as surely as an anchor, hold one's spirit tied
                          to this
                          > world.

                          How about gold AND somber tones? Rats, I can't FIND the blasted book
                          just now, but there's a portrait of a woman in Money
                          Hickman's "Momoyama: Japan's Golden Age" and she's wearing a dark
                          brown kosode with gold designs patterned on it. VERY spiff, I
                          thought.

                          Makiwara
                        • Date Saburou Yukiie
                          Rizii-dono, It is a little known fact that the Date are Ancient Japan s formost rubber cement booger pickers. We spend long, cold winters in the mountains,
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 8, 2004
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                            Rizii-dono,
                            It is a little known fact that the Date are Ancient Japan's formost
                            rubber cement booger pickers. We spend long, cold winters in the
                            mountains, secretly developing new techniques. Why - didn't you ever
                            wonder why there are so many art supply stores up north?

                            If you try the method, use new new new rubber cement. It is less
                            evil, and will come up easier...also - don't run the fabric through
                            the dryer...let it air dry, then get your rubber cement eraser to
                            work...It is not a good idea to run rubber cement through a
                            dryer...things tend to catch fire...or worse...
                            Also, practice it a few times on less expensive cloth - don't go in
                            two days before your corronation on your best fabric and expect to
                            have a great weekend! ;-)

                            Date Saburou Yukiie
                            Yama Kaminari Ryu
                            R.C.B.P.F.M.
                            (Rubber Cement Bugger Picker from Mutsu...)

                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Chase"
                            <elizabethlchase@m...> wrote:
                            > Date-dono,
                            >
                            > Yep. Like mama said, sometimes it's best to keep quiet and nod
                            your head. No point arguing with the truth.
                            >
                            > If I were less fogged up in the synapse zone, I'd write a
                            poem.....
                            >
                            > Rizii
                            > --who is looking forward to trying rubber cement boogers in the
                            summer.....
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Date Saburou Yukiie
                            > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:00 PM
                            > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Fabric and dying question
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Rizii-dono...
                            > I have been told I am a man of many tallents...who am I to argue?!
                            > ;-)
                            >
                            > Date
                            >
                            > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Chase"
                            <elizabethlchase@m...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > Date-dono,
                            > >
                            > > Somehow, the mental image of yourself as a might Samurai.....
                            picking
                            > rubber cement boogers..... is precious.... especially when
                            > > laid next to your word paintings and descriptions of your archery.
                            > >
                            > > Thank you,
                            > >
                            > > Rizii
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > >
                            > > From: Date Saburou Yukiie
                            > >
                            > > die the material...then pick the rubber cement
                            > > boogers off with a rubber cement eraser...without needing to wash
                            > > again...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ---
                            > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                            > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                            > > Version: 6.0.803 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                          • Solveig
                            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I am pretty sure that the patterns were applied to the fabric before the the clothing was constructed. Among other
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 8, 2004
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                              Noble Cousin!

                              Greetings from Solveig! I am pretty sure that the patterns were applied
                              to the fabric before the the clothing was constructed. Among other things,
                              this allows for reusing frames. However, if you are asking whether you
                              should first cut the bolt to the appropriate width for traditional looms,
                              and then dye, then I would say yes. However, there will not be a lot
                              of difference for traditional patterns shuch as plain, polka dots, &c.
                              --

                              Your Humble Servant
                              Solveig Throndardottir
                              Amateur Scholar

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