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Hero - loved it!

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  • mattfmcti
    Katai na Itoko! (Honorable Cousins) I finally saw Hero last night....awesome film. Easily the best thing QT has ever had any kind of involvement in. Certainly
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 2, 2004
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      Katai na Itoko! (Honorable Cousins)

      I finally saw Hero last night....awesome film. Easily the best thing
      QT has ever had any kind of involvement in. Certainly makes me want to
      have a secondary Warring States Chinese persona (I feel MPD coming on
      ^_^). Some questions on the movie, particularly the arms. Did the Qins
      use shields? Was the armour in the movie depicted accurately for the
      period? What about the garb? I realize this was a highly stylized film
      in many places.

      One other question, about the romanization system used for Mandarin.
      What is the difference between 'X' and 'Sh', and how does one
      pronounce the dipthong 'eu'? If any can use IPA to answer this, that
      would be great.

      Domo Arigato Gozaimasu!
      Fujiwara Takaharu
    • mattfmcti
      ... when I was ... different. :( Hiraizumi-sensei! Good to hear from you again. It s hard for me to decide, CT, HD or Hero. Who wants to see Jet Li vs.
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 2, 2004
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        >
        > You're not the only one. I love the stuff. If I'd've seen this movie
        when I was
        > still at IU, my view toward the Chinese program might have been
        different. :(

        Hiraizumi-sensei! Good to hear from you again. It's hard for me to
        decide, CT, HD or Hero. Who wants to see Jet Li vs. Chow-yun Fat? I do
        I do! Both were excellent.

        > Close. Ish. Have you never seen pictures of the terracotta army?
        That's Qin
        > armour at it's zenith (well, relatively speaking since there were
        only a few
        > decades of Qin... :) )

        I've seen pictures of the group as a whole, but never one close up
        enough to pick out any detail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks
        like various square plates riveted at the corners to a leather (?)
        backing...at least that's what I can pick up from the terracotta army.

        > The Pinyin "X" is what used to be romanized in the Wade-Giles system
        as "HS"
        > --it's kind of a hissing sound, not really an "SH." Put your tongue
        in a
        > position with the middle of the tongue against the roof of the mouth
        as if you
        > were trying to scrape peanutbutter off it, and say "hhh".
        >
        > As to the dipthong "eu" -- there isn't one that I can recall.
        Where'd you see
        > it? Do you mean "ue" (as in "Feixue" -- Flying Snow")? If that's the
        case, it's
        > essentially "weh"

        I believe the actress who played Flying Snow's familial name is Leung
        (again, could be wrong). Could you recommend a good resource on
        Chinese pronunciation? I'm looking for the pronunciation for the
        affirmative response, as the vowel is one I've never heard in any IE
        language.

        Any idea when we can expect some sokutai patterns? I've very exceited
        about trying to put together a ketteki no hô. Again, it's good to have
        you back.

        Humbly,
        Fujiwara Takaharu

        P.S. - Am I the only one who thinks Zhang Ziyi is a hottie? ^_^
      • Anthony Bryant
        ... You re not the only one. I love the stuff. If I d ve seen this movie when I was still at IU, my view toward the Chinese program might have been different.
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 2, 2004
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          mattfmcti wrote:
          >
          > Katai na Itoko! (Honorable Cousins)
          >
          > I finally saw Hero last night....awesome film. Easily the best thing
          > QT has ever had any kind of involvement in. Certainly makes me want to
          > have a secondary Warring States Chinese persona (I feel MPD coming on
          > ^_^).

          You're not the only one. I love the stuff. If I'd've seen this movie when I was
          still at IU, my view toward the Chinese program might have been different. :(

          > Some questions on the movie, particularly the arms. Did the Qins
          > use shields? Was the armour in the movie depicted accurately for the
          > period? What about the garb? I realize this was a highly stylized film
          > in many places.

          Close. Ish. Have you never seen pictures of the terracotta army? That's Qin
          armour at it's zenith (well, relatively speaking since there were only a few
          decades of Qin... :) )

          > One other question, about the romanization system used for Mandarin.
          > What is the difference between 'X' and 'Sh', and how does one
          > pronounce the dipthong 'eu'? If any can use IPA to answer this, that
          > would be great.

          The Pinyin "X" is what used to be romanized in the Wade-Giles system as "HS"
          --it's kind of a hissing sound, not really an "SH." Put your tongue in a
          position with the middle of the tongue against the roof of the mouth as if you
          were trying to scrape peanutbutter off it, and say "hhh".

          As to the dipthong "eu" -- there isn't one that I can recall. Where'd you see
          it? Do you mean "ue" (as in "Feixue" -- Flying Snow")? If that's the case, it's
          essentially "weh"

          Effingham/Hiraizumi/ (aka "Bu Andong")

          --

          Anthony J. Bryant
          Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

          Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
          http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

          Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
          http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
        • Park McKellop
          There is no need to move to China to get a good look. You can buy an original complete suit made of jade on ebay, I m sure. Along with matched sets of
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 2, 2004
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            There is no need to move to China to get a good look. You can buy an original complete suit made of jade on ebay, I'm sure. Along with matched sets of one-of-a-kind museum pieces...

            Alcyoneus

            Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:
            One of the reasons I've considered a temp job in China (but at
            the cost of a whole year!) is to get to look at some early armour.

            Effingham

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          • Anthony Bryant
            ... I could go for that. :) ... Actually, it s a rather classic lamellar -- the scales are all laced together. I ve got a great book here called The Qin
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 2, 2004
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              mattfmcti wrote:

              > Hiraizumi-sensei! Good to hear from you again. It's hard for me to
              > decide, CT, HD or Hero. Who wants to see Jet Li vs. Chow-yun Fat? I do
              > I do! Both were excellent.

              I could go for that. :)

              >>Close. Ish. Have you never seen pictures of the terracotta army?
              >> That's Qin
              >>armour at it's zenith (well, relatively speaking since there were
              >> only a few
              >>decades of Qin... :) )
              >
              >
              > I've seen pictures of the group as a whole, but never one close up
              > enough to pick out any detail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks
              > like various square plates riveted at the corners to a leather (?)
              > backing...at least that's what I can pick up from the terracotta army.

              Actually, it's a rather classic lamellar -- the scales are all laced together.
              I've got a great book here called "The Qin Terracotta Army" with lots of great
              close up photos. One of the reasons I've considered a temp job in China (but at
              the cost of a whole year!) is to get to look at some early armour.


              >>As to the dipthong "eu" -- there isn't one that I can recall.
              >> Where'd you see
              >>it? Do you mean "ue" (as in "Feixue" -- Flying Snow")? If that's the
              >> case, it's
              >>essentially "weh"

              > I believe the actress who played Flying Snow's familial name is Leung
              > (again, could be wrong). Could you recommend a good resource on
              > Chinese pronunciation? I'm looking for the pronunciation for the
              > affirmative response, as the vowel is one I've never heard in any IE
              > language.

              Ah. That's 'cause she was born in Hong Kong, and it's in Cantonese. In Mandarin,
              her name's Zhang Manyu (no relation to Zhang Ziyi).

              > Any idea when we can expect some sokutai patterns? I've very exceited
              > about trying to put together a ketteki no hô. Again, it's good to have
              > you back.

              I have to get cracking on those. Sigh...

              > P.S. - Am I the only one who thinks Zhang Ziyi is a hottie? ^_^

              No, but she's apparently a major beeyatch and quite a handful.


              Effingham

              --

              Anthony J. Bryant
              Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

              Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
              http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

              Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
              http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
            • Anthony Bryant
              ... BTW: in one of the pointlessly stupid ways Pinyin works, Zhang Ziyi is pronounced /jong dzuh-ee/, and Zhang Manyu is pronounced /jong mahn-yoo/ --
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 3, 2004
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                Anthony Bryant wrote:


                > Ah. That's 'cause she was born in Hong Kong, and it's in Cantonese. In Mandarin,
                > her name's Zhang Manyu (no relation to Zhang Ziyi).

                BTW: in one of the pointlessly stupid ways Pinyin works, "Zhang Ziyi" is
                pronounced /jong dzuh-ee/, and "Zhang Manyu" is pronounced /jong mahn-yoo/ --
                there's little rhyme or reason. "Shi" is pronounced almost exactly like the
                English "sure" (though farther back in the mouth) while "chi" is pronounced
                /chee/ (though close to the top and front of the mouth).


                Effingham


                --

                Anthony J. Bryant
                Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
                http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
              • Anthony Bryant
                ... E-bay. Ya gotta love it. Effing-up-too-late -- Anthony J. Bryant Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com Effingham s Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 3, 2004
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                  Park McKellop wrote:

                  > There is no need to move to China to get a good look. You can buy an
                  > original complete suit made of jade on ebay, I'm sure. Along with matched
                  > sets of one-of-a-kind museum pieces...

                  E-bay. Ya gotta love it.

                  Effing-up-too-late

                  --

                  Anthony J. Bryant
                  Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

                  Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
                  http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

                  Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
                  http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
                • mattfmcti
                  ... Cantonese. In Mandarin, ... Ziyi is ... mahn-yoo/ -- ... like the ... pronounced ... Yet another reason why IPA shold be used for EVERYTHING *j/k* But
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 3, 2004
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                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@b...> wrote:
                    > Anthony Bryant wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > Ah. That's 'cause she was born in Hong Kong, and it's in
                    Cantonese. In Mandarin,
                    > > her name's Zhang Manyu (no relation to Zhang Ziyi).
                    >
                    > BTW: in one of the pointlessly stupid ways Pinyin works, "Zhang
                    Ziyi" is
                    > pronounced /jong dzuh-ee/, and "Zhang Manyu" is pronounced /jong
                    mahn-yoo/ --
                    > there's little rhyme or reason. "Shi" is pronounced almost exactly
                    like the
                    > English "sure" (though farther back in the mouth) while "chi" is
                    pronounced
                    > /chee/ (though close to the top and front of the mouth).
                    >
                    >
                    > Effingham

                    Yet another reason why IPA shold be used for EVERYTHING *j/k* But
                    seriously, a phonetically-based romanization system would seem so much
                    more logical. I can deal with dropped vowels, like final -u in
                    Japanese, but at least try to depict the way the vowels SOUND with its
                    closest IE equivalent.

                    Fujiwara
                  • mattfmcti
                    ... together. ... lots of great ... China (but at ... Huh. Shows how good I am at picking out detail ^_^ After looking closer at some net pics, it seems the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 3, 2004
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                      > Actually, it's a rather classic lamellar -- the scales are all laced
                      together.
                      > I've got a great book here called "The Qin Terracotta Army" with
                      lots of great
                      > close up photos. One of the reasons I've considered a temp job in
                      China (but at
                      > the cost of a whole year!) is to get to look at some early armour.

                      Huh. Shows how good I am at picking out detail ^_^ After looking
                      closer at some net pics, it seems the plates are punched with four
                      holes on either side and two on the top and bottom, then laced
                      overlapping down, correct? The section covering the shoulders and
                      collar bones seems to be sort of tailored to the individual (the areas
                      covered by kanagu mawari). Was this the case, or is there some pattern
                      involved? Are you familiar with what I've seen called "mountain scale
                      armour"? How does that date compared with the Qin lamellar?

                      Back to Japanese: what were the period thicknesses of the plates used
                      in the bowl of a kabuto? Were they tempered or hardened in some way to
                      reduce weight while retaining the same level of protection? A lot has
                      been made recently on the AA about the used of carbon steel and
                      various hardening methods to improve authenticity and cut down on
                      wieght, and I was wondering how this topic would be handled in a
                      Japanese context.

                      An eager and curious student humbly picking your brain,
                      Fujiwara
                    • Park McKellop
                      Actually, I am of the opinion that using the medium carbon steels and hardening and tempering them, in the thicknesses/weights they are using is less accurate
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 3, 2004
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                        Actually, I am of the opinion that using the medium carbon steels and hardening and tempering them, in the thicknesses/weights they are using is less accurate than mild steel, for the most part. The weights they are coming up with (only a couple pounds per leg harness) is less than most of what I am finding in my museum catalogs. I am sure there are exceptions, though.

                        Some of Henry VIII's armors show incomplete, or failed attempts at the process. He imported some of the very finest Italian, and then, German armorers that he was able to afford. If the King of England wasn't able to get it right...

                        Alcyoneus

                        mattfmcti <mattfmcti@...> wrote:
                        A lot has
                        been made recently on the AA about the used of carbon steel and
                        various hardening methods to improve authenticity and cut down on
                        wieght, and I was wondering how this topic would be handled in a
                        Japanese context.

                        An eager and curious student humbly picking your brain,
                        Fujiwara


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