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Re: [SCA-JML] Question for the list

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  • Solveig
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... The first problem is your identification of shoji with screens. Although there are North American screens which
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 30, 2004
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      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      > Has anyone here built, or can perhaps reccomend instructions for
      >building shoji screens?

      The first problem is your identification of shoji with screens. Although
      there are North American screens which resemble shoji, shoji are really
      prototypical sliding glass doors. They are not screens. They slide in
      tracks. One of the simplest ways of making them is to create the wooden
      framework which is a sort of chineese puzzle lattice and glue the paper
      to one size. Originally, the "handles" were simply framed in boxes. Modern
      shoji in Japan typically have mass produced inset handles.
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

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    • James Eckman
      ... Toshio Odate defines shoji as Japanese sliding doors and screens. Screens can be used to block vision as well as keep out bugs. He has examples of
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 2, 2004
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        >
        >
        > From: Solveig <nostrand@...> Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig!
        >
        >The first problem is your identification of shoji with screens. Although
        >there are North American screens which resemble shoji, shoji are really
        >prototypical sliding glass doors. They are not screens.
        >
        Toshio Odate defines shoji as Japanese sliding doors and screens.
        Screens can be used to block vision as well as keep out bugs. He has
        examples of freestanding shoji in his book, which he calls shoji. Of
        course some have more specific names like naninani~shoji but shoji seems
        to be the generic name for the panel and not what its function is. For
        example, kakeshoji means hanging screen and is not any kind of door.

        >They slide in tracks. One of the simplest ways of making them is to create the wooden
        >framework which is a sort of chineese puzzle lattice and glue the paper.
        >to one size.
        >
        I don't know if simple is a good description of this process, your
        probably more skilled at woodcraft than I am.

        >Originally, the "handles" were simply framed in boxes. Modern
        >shoji in Japan typically have mass produced inset handles.
        >
        >
        In the book, Odate-sensei shows a fair number of types of screens, none
        have inset handles or framed in boxes of any kind, they do have paper
        handles. This may be a modern addition.

        Jim Eckman
      • mokurai
        Yahoo is now using something called Web Beacons to track Yahoo Group users around the net and see what you re doing and where you are going - similar to
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 2, 2004
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          Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons" to track Yahoo
          Group users around the net and see what you're doing and where you
          are going - similar to cookies.

          Take a look at their updated privacy statement:
          http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy

          About half-way down the page, in the section on cookies you will see
          a link that says "web beacons."
          Click on the phrase "web beacons."

          That will bring you to a paragraph entitled "Outside the Yahoo
          Network."
          In this section you'll see a little "click here to opt out" link
          that will let you "opt-out" of their new method of snooping.

          Once you have clicked that link, you are opted out. Notice
          the "Success"
          message on the top of the next page. Be careful because on that page
          there is a "Cancel Opt-out" button that, if clicked, will *undo**
          the opt-out.


          Feel free to forward this to other groups.
        • sigrune@aol.com
          Thank you Mokurai, I m not worried about web privacy so much but I hate all those little flags, beacons, cookies, dataminers, etc. that loge in weird places in
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 2, 2004
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            Thank you Mokurai,

            I'm not worried about web privacy so much but I hate all those little flags, beacons, cookies, dataminers, etc. that loge in weird places in my computer and slow down the performance, change minor settings, etc.

            It can play havoc with my graphics programs... and there is nothing I hate more (online) than opening a web browser and it going somewhere I had not told it to.

            -Takeda
          • Kristin Pamperin
            Mokurai, Thank you for informing us about this new tracking device. However, clicking on the opt-out option only means that your information is not shared with
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 3, 2004
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              Mokurai,

              Thank you for informing us about this new tracking
              device. However, clicking on the opt-out option only
              means that your information is not shared with Yahoo's
              partners. You are still being tracked. (see statement
              below from the privacy statement)

              >>You may choose to opt-out of Yahoo! using this
              information for this research. Please click here to
              opt-out.<<

              Big Brother still watches us all!

              Krystinia

              --- mokurai <mokurai@...> wrote:

              > Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons" to
              > track Yahoo
              > Group users around the net and see what you're doing
              > and where you
              > are going - similar to cookies.
              >
              > Take a look at their updated privacy statement:
              > http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy
              >
              > About half-way down the page, in the section on
              > cookies you will see
              > a link that says "web beacons."
              > Click on the phrase "web beacons."
              >
              > That will bring you to a paragraph entitled "Outside
              > the Yahoo
              > Network."
              > In this section you'll see a little "click here to
              > opt out" link
              > that will let you "opt-out" of their new method of
              > snooping.
              >
              > Once you have clicked that link, you are opted out.
              > Notice
              > the "Success"
              > message on the top of the next page. Be careful
              > because on that page
              > there is a "Cancel Opt-out" button that, if clicked,
              > will *undo**
              > the opt-out.
              >
              >
              > Feel free to forward this to other groups.
              >
              >




              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!
              http://my.yahoo.com
            • Solveig
              Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... Nope! I think that we are trying to describe the same sort of thing here. The handles are not actually made out of
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 3, 2004
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                Noble Cousins!

                Greetings from Solveig!

                >In the book, Odate-sensei shows a fair number of types of screens, none
                >have inset handles or framed in boxes of any kind, they do have paper
                >handles. This may be a modern addition.

                Nope! I think that we are trying to describe the same sort of thing here.
                The handles are not actually made out of paper. They are an opening in
                the framing where there is no covering. That is a more traditional form.
                Modern shouji often have stamped metal inset handles in the framing.

                This note prompted me to look up shouji in Daijirin. The article is rather
                interesting. Most generically, shouji refers to a feature of Japanese
                architecture constructed by glueing some sort of surface over
                of a wooden frame. The surfacing material can be either paper or cloth
                and can be either thick or thin. Originally, both sides were surfaced,
                but begining with the middle ages, the Japanese took up using a single
                layer of paper or silk so as to admit light. Daijirin (1st ed.) also
                notes the special application of shouji to windows and as room boundaries.
                While tsudare can also be translated as screen, they are simply hung and
                not glued to a frame.

                Frederic in "Japan Encyclopedia" is more restrictive: "In architecture, a
                sliding door or window with mullions; its open surfaces are covered
                with white translucent rice paper so that light can enter. Shouji are
                still widely used, and their function is as practical as it is
                decorative. In modern homes, they are often lined with glass on the
                outside to protect them."
                --

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
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                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
                | trash by my email filters. |
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              • James Eckman
                ... Yes, but there s a special way to fold it so the wood is completely covered, your hand touchs the paper, not wood, that was my meaning. ... I think they
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 3, 2004
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                  >
                  >
                  >From: Solveig <nostrand@...>
                  >
                  >
                  >>>In the book, Odate-sensei shows a fair number of types of screens, none
                  >>>have inset handles or framed in boxes of any kind, they do have paper
                  >>>handles. This may be a modern addition.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >Nope! I think that we are trying to describe the same sort of thing here.
                  >The handles are not actually made out of paper.
                  >
                  Yes, but there's a special way to fold it so the wood is completely
                  covered, your hand touchs the paper, not wood, that was my meaning.

                  >This note prompted me to look up shouji in Daijirin. The article is rather
                  >interesting. Most generically, shouji refers to a feature of Japanese
                  >architecture constructed by glueing some sort of surface over
                  >of a wooden frame.
                  >
                  I think they key part here is correct. Free standing screens are not
                  called shoji, they are called either byobu(opaque) or tsuitate. If it's
                  meant to be part of a house, even if it doesn't slide but is hung or
                  just placed it's shoji. It has to be a house piece and not random furniture.

                  >Frederic in "Japan Encyclopedia" is more restrictive: "In architecture, a
                  >sliding door or window with mullions;
                  >
                  Frederic or the last generation of traditionally apprenticed tategushi?
                  Hmmm... I say they don't have to slide.

                  Jim Eckman
                • Solveig
                  Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... This is the point I was trying to get across. Shouji are sliding architectural units. The opaque internal sort are
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 4, 2004
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                    Noble Cousins!

                    Greetings from Solveig!

                    >I think they key part here is correct. Free standing screens are not
                    >called shoji, they are called either byobu(opaque) or tsuitate. If it's
                    >meant to be part of a house, even if it doesn't slide but is hung or
                    >just placed it's shoji. It has to be a house piece and not random furniture.

                    This is the point I was trying to get across. Shouji are sliding architectural
                    units. The opaque internal sort are now called fusuma while shouji are the
                    translucent exterior sort. Very technically, these shouji can be internal.
                    However, their light admitting properties have them placed next to a narrow
                    companionway on the other side of which lie either wooden shutters or a
                    sliding glass door or similar contrivance. Strictly internal translucent
                    room dividers would be distinctly odd, but not impossible. One possibility
                    comes to minnd. I once stayed at a very very fance youth hostle whic was
                    set up in such a way that the rooms looked like small estates with the
                    entrances having these wooden jail-cell style gates on them. All very
                    fancy. Since these fronted on the interior of the building, the interior
                    of the building served as a sort of symbolic out doors and shouji could
                    easily face in this direction.
                    --

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar

                    +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS, Fleur |
                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                    | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                    +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to the |
                    | trash by my email filters. |
                    +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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