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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Re: silk painting -- tangent

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  • maggie_mae1@juno.com
    I had posted a questio to the list some time ago regarding winter weather clothing. I was told that some padded and/or quilted garments are created with
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 1, 2004
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      I had posted a questio to the list some time ago regarding winter weather clothing. I was told that some padded and/or quilted garments are created with fabric scraps (as wool was not available to create batting). Would the cast-offs from silk painting be appropriate? Or does the art use a different type of silk fabric entirely? If not, does the ink on the silk render it unusable for padding garments?

      Megge
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    • S. David Lee
      ... with fabric scraps (as wool was not available to create batting) ... While clothing certainly isn t my area of expertise, it s my understanding that the
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 1, 2004
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        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "maggie_mae1@j..."
        <maggie_mae1@j...> wrote:
        >
        >I was told that some padded and/or quilted garments are created
        with fabric scraps (as wool was not available to create batting)
        > Megge

        While clothing certainly isn't my area of expertise, it's my
        understanding that the Japanese didn't quilt in the Western sense of
        the word.

        The padding in jacket which Akiley and I made has the batting sewn
        to the inside seam allowances, which I was told is a period
        technique. We used poly batting instead of the correct silk, cost
        being a factor. I understand that silk batting clings to the inside
        of the main fabric, allowing very little shifting.

        Westerners often refer to sashiko embroidery as quilting, when in
        fact it does not 'quilt' at all, though there is a surface
        resemblance. (And I don't believe sashiko is period. I could be
        wrong.)

        Please correct me if I'm wrong here. As I said, I am no
        seamstress.
        -Ogami
      • Park McKellop
        S. David Lee wrote: Westerners often refer to sashiko embroidery as quilting, when in fact it does not quilt at all, though there is
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 2, 2004
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          "S. David Lee" <ogamibusho@...> wrote:

          Westerners often refer to sashiko embroidery as quilting, when in
          fact it does not 'quilt' at all, though there is a surface
          resemblance. (And I don't believe sashiko is period. I could be
          wrong.)

          Please correct me if I'm wrong here. As I said, I am no
          seamstress.
          -Ogami




          This site claims it dates, in some form to the Asuka period:

          http://www.localcolorart.com/encyclopedia/Sashiko_quilting/

          Sasiko quilting [Pronounced: SA-SHEE-KOE] is a form of quilting originating from Japan.

          Centuries ago, Japanese peasants practised a running-stitch technique called "little stabs" to patch torn or worn clothes. Mending was vital as cloth and thread were scarce and therefore valuable.

          When white cotton thread became available, this was used for patching indigo blue garments, and this gave Sasiko its distinctive appearance.

          The oldest surviving item of sasiko-stitched clothing is from the Asuka period and is a Buddhist priest's robe. It was donated to a temple in 756.

          Many Sasiko patterns were derived from Chinese designs, but just as many were developed by the Japanese themselves.

          The artist Katsushika Hokusai (1760 � 1849) published the book New Forms for Design in 1824, and his designs have inspired many Sashiko patterns



          Alcyoneus



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        • STEPHEN CHURCH
          From what I remember, it goes something like this. The peasants would take scraps or rags and sew them onto their clothes to fill in holes or make it thicker
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 2, 2004
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            From what I remember, it goes something like this.

            The peasants would take scraps or rags and sew them onto their clothes to
            fill in holes or make it thicker (warmer).
            Sometime this layering got 3 to 5 layers deep.
            As time progressed the sewing of scraps or rags onto clothes used stitches
            that were created to emulate designs. So, if they sewed a circle of clothe
            over a hole in the garment, the stitching was done in a circular design. If
            they added a chunk of rag to thicken up their garments, they used various
            patterns/designs in the stitching to hole the rag chunk onto the garment.
            When the samurai rose to prominence they brought this technique with them
            and it became know as sashiko. The use of white thread over two layers of
            fabric to hold them together was later period, post 1600. I think the
            earliest known piece was about 1678 or 1768(?).. There is still debate
            going on that it could have been used in-period, but nothing to verify it
            yet.

            Sashiko was never done with batting or filling.

            However, there are examples of filled or batted kimono used as sleeping
            blankets, but they did not have any stitching to hold them together (other
            than the seams), rather they used raw silk, which when applied to both sides
            of the fabric, glued the silk cloth to the silk batting.

            So it appears our Daimyo is correct.

            Bun'ami

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "S. David Lee" <ogamibusho@...>
            To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 2:58 AM
            Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: silk painting -- tangent


            >
            >
            > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "maggie_mae1@j..."
            > <maggie_mae1@j...> wrote:
            >>
            >>I was told that some padded and/or quilted garments are created
            > with fabric scraps (as wool was not available to create batting)
            >> Megge
            >
            > While clothing certainly isn't my area of expertise, it's my
            > understanding that the Japanese didn't quilt in the Western sense of
            > the word.
            >
            > The padding in jacket which Akiley and I made has the batting sewn
            > to the inside seam allowances, which I was told is a period
            > technique. We used poly batting instead of the correct silk, cost
            > being a factor. I understand that silk batting clings to the inside
            > of the main fabric, allowing very little shifting.
            >
            > Westerners often refer to sashiko embroidery as quilting, when in
            > fact it does not 'quilt' at all, though there is a surface
            > resemblance. (And I don't believe sashiko is period. I could be
            > wrong.)
            >
            > Please correct me if I'm wrong here. As I said, I am no
            > seamstress.
            > -Ogami
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            >
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          • Date Saburou Yukiie
            Bun ami-sensei, Greetings from your deshi, Date Saburou Yukiie, I was wondering, do you have the music for the newest Taiko piece laid out in Finale Notepad? I
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 2, 2004
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              Bun'ami-sensei,
              Greetings from your deshi, Date Saburou Yukiie,
              I was wondering, do you have the music for the newest Taiko piece
              laid out in Finale Notepad?
              I was hoping that a copy might be available somewhere, so I can
              practice...

              Date Saburou Yukiie
              Yama Kaminari Ryu

              PS: I really enjoyed the last practice...I was hoping to get up this
              friday, but I do not think that is possible...

              Date
              >
            • Elaine Koogler
              ... I don t recall hearing anything about the technique Megge suggests, but I have read in places the information that Ogami-dono shares. I did make a quilted
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 7, 2004
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                S. David Lee wrote:

                >
                > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "maggie_mae1@j..."
                > <maggie_mae1@j...> wrote:
                > >
                > >I was told that some padded and/or quilted garments are created
                > with fabric scraps (as wool was not available to create batting)
                > > Megge
                >
                > While clothing certainly isn't my area of expertise, it's my
                > understanding that the Japanese didn't quilt in the Western sense of
                > the word.
                >
                > The padding in jacket which Akiley and I made has the batting sewn
                > to the inside seam allowances, which I was told is a period
                > technique. We used poly batting instead of the correct silk, cost
                > being a factor. I understand that silk batting clings to the inside
                > of the main fabric, allowing very little shifting.
                >
                > Westerners often refer to sashiko embroidery as quilting, when in
                > fact it does not 'quilt' at all, though there is a surface
                > resemblance. (And I don't believe sashiko is period. I could be
                > wrong.)
                >
                > Please correct me if I'm wrong here. As I said, I am no
                > seamstress.
                > -Ogami

                I don't recall hearing anything about the technique Megge suggests, but
                I have read in places the information that Ogami-dono shares. I did
                make a quilted kosode some years ago. I used cotton batting as I
                couldn't find silk. I sewed it in at the side seams and, because I was
                concerned about the batting shifting, I did sew one vertical line down
                the center back and several horizontal lines (I'm about 5'4" so I think
                I used maybe 3 horizontal lines on both front and back.) I can't
                remember what I did to the sleeves...I suspect I did sew a line or two.
                It may not be totally period, but I was more concerned with keeping the
                batting in place.

                Kiri
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